Unable to access test charts with i1 and Windows 8.1 for linearization


#1

O.K. I lashed out and got an i1 Pro2 Photo kit. Specifically I want to check for linearizations issue on a 3800 - there seems some mid tone reversals on the prints compared to the calibrated ) screen image.

I can print the 21 step chart that come with the K7 Custom Profiling kit, but for the life of me can’t get the chart to be recognised by the X-Rite software, so I can’t bring it up to be scanned. I get “error reading cgats file” coming up.

I have tried both RGB and CMYK printer option variations, and have noted that some other test charts ( the TC9 and i1-Pro and others ) can be accessed.

If I could use one of those, how would it be possible to use the spread sheet etc in the K& profiling package to check if I have a linearization problem?

Mike


#2

O.K. thanks to those with info who have replied, I reckon I’ve got this sorted now…until the next glitch.
Cheers.


#3


O.K. fi this comes through, it will give an idea of where I stand. The inks have been periodically shaken, I have done nozzle checks, two power cleans and some A4 prints to move the inks through on the Epson 3800.
Anything else I ca try?


#4

Mike - something is seriously wrong here. Given your printer model, and where the radical departure from linearity commences, it appears to involve shade 4 in the magenta position, and perhaps other darker shades as well.

As I said to you in separate correspondence, the only other example of such a radical departure from linearity like this that I can recall was this instance. If you read that thread, and I encourage you to do so, you’ll see that it was caused by ink contamination. Your departure is not as radical, but similar in nature.

In that thread there are a number of tests that you can perform to assist in diagnosis, such as the smear test and measuring the 60% squares on the ink separation page.

The thread will also give you an indication of the sorts of [I]detailed[/I] information that the IJM folks will want in order to help diagnose the cause: the printer history, the ink and cartridge history, how often you print and how you maintain your printer, your workflow, operating system and software versions.

Solving this is beyond my experience. I’ve not experienced a problem like this personally, and I don’t use an Epson 38x0 for Piezography. Although the IJM folks have been a little less active here lately, hopefully they will respond soon.


#5

O.K. thanks for that, it would appear I can take this forward. On to more readind and testing!
Cheers.


#6

Hi Mike~

After reviewing your order history, I see you’ve bought Piezography Neutral ink in Feb 2013, then again in Sept 2015. I don’t see that you bought 3800 refill carts from us, so assume you bought them elsewhere (?)
When did you install Piezography ink into your 3800 printer? What ink shade did you install into what color position cartridge? Have you even got good/correct results with this 3800 Piezography setup, or has it been overly dark since your initial installation? If your results were good at first, then changed to bad/dark, what happened before the problem started: had you refilled any carts? Had the printer sat unused fort a while, or were you printing regularly?
Please print an Ink Separation image thru QTR Calibration Mode to check your ink densities and shade placement. Instructions for printing this file can be found here: http://www.inkjetmall.com/tech/content.php?144-Print-Ink-Separation-Image-thru-QTR-Calibration-Mode

Please let me know, and we’ll move forward from there.
Thanks~ Dana


#7

Hi Dana and thanks for the reply.
The 3800 was bought second or even third hand in September and the inks used were the ones I got off you that month. Prior to this I was using a 3880 and swapping between colour and Piezo K7 but it got too much of a hassle so I went for a dedicated K7 printer- the 3800.

Results from the 3880 set up were good for a newbie like me, the change has occurred with the 3800.
I have been following the IJM recommendations and shaking the cartridges weekly, with nozzle checks and power cleans when not likely to be used for a week or so, and if left longer have been letting them sit with Piezoflush.

I don’t think these cartridges were purchased from you, but I will be getting some more anyway as a couple of the 3880 ones look like they have leakage in the inner bag- I’ve been reading up on this in other forum threads.

I have already printed the QTR Calibration mode chart ( last night ) and when I come to terms with my new i1 will read the 60% patches.
There IS a possibility of ink contamination despite my best efforts to keep a clean and thorough work flow from loading the ink, installation and onwards.

So, shaking both the bottles and the cartridges should alleviate pigment settling even with half full bottles? and of course some power cleans and test prints to clear the lines.
If it looks like incorrect installation ( AAARGH!!!) what is the best way to determine which inks are involved? and what is the remedy- drain and flush just those cartridges or dump them and start afresh?

Finally, any news of 2016 workshops? Albany Western Australia is about as far away from Vermont as you can physically get on the planet, but then again…


#8

Hi Mike~

Thanks for the additional information.

Are you using the same set of Piezography carts in your 3800 that you were having good results with in your 3880 (with 3800 chips attached), or a totally different set of carts in the 3800 with the fresh ink you bought recently?

I will be able to tell a lot from your printed Ink Separation print out. It would be helpful to get the 60% measurements from this print, and it should look similar to the one on the instruction page.

Let’s see what your Ink Separation measurements show before deciding what to do next. I will wait to hear from you.

Yes, we have mapped out the 2016 workshop schedule, and plan to broaden our workshop offerings to include our new Piezography Digital Negative Platinum system, as well as Piezography Pro (development is going well, but not yet finished), and separating beginner vs. advanced Piezography workshops- though are not yet finalized as to which will be which. We understand it takes some time to make travel arrangements, etc… so we will release our 2016 workshop schedule very soon so people can plan ahead. I do know we plan to start group workshops in Vermont again in the beginning of May, and hope to have two a month until the beginning of October. We will also be scheduling one-on-one workshops between the group sessions.

Please let me know your Ink Separation results, and we’ll move forward from there to get this issue resolved and you back to happily printing.
Warmly~ Dana :slight_smile:


#9

Hi Dana, thanks again for the response.
Having done a smear test for a quick idea, it looks like inks #4 & #5 are totally pear shaped.

Readings from the i1 ( assuming I have got it right ) are as follows for the 60% patches
#1 1.61 MK
#2 1.37
#3 1.25
#4 0.84 (WHAT!!!)
#5 0.78 ( see #4 )
#6 0.25
#7 0.16
GO/paper white 0.04

This was on Moab Lasal Photo Matte, just for a test print for Ink Separation purposes. As far as I remember, the carts were specifically for the 3800- I kept the ones for the 3880 for PZ flush and Cone Colour inks with appropriate chips. And yes, it was the most recent inks.

Mike


#10

Thanks for the numbers, that’s a big help!

Comparing to my measurements of Piezography Neutral ink on Epson Enhanced Matte paper, your shades 2-4 are a bit dark, but shade 5 is significantly dark (should be more like around .38)- and I’d say that’s what is causing your output to be dark in the mid-tones.

Have you only filled this set of carts once, or have you refilled them at all since the original fill?
Please let me know the lot# and expiration date on your shade #5 ink bottle.
I would like you to do a Q-tip smear test of the inks in your shade 5 bottle and cartridge, to see if they’re the same or not. Shake both the cart and ink bottle, then dip the end of a Q-tip into the ink, and wipe the wet Q-tip across a piece of paper, in one smooth motion (don’t rub back and forth). Mark the smear to indicate cart or bottle, then repeat with the other ink sample with a fresh Q-tip. Dry and compare the two ink smears. If the cart smear is darker than the bottle smear, then the cartridge was probably mis-filled with the wrong ink shade.

Let me know your results, and we’ll go from there.
Thanks~ Dana :slight_smile:


#11

Hi Dana, I have done the smear test with the (shaken) bottle and ink cart.
Both appear to be identical.
The bottle ( Neutral shade 5 ) lot# is 131225 with best use date Nov 2016.

I can’t remember if I have done more than 1 fill for the carts, but judging by the amount left in the bottle and allowing for multiple power cleans, I suspect not. Can’t guarantee it, though.

Hope this helps.

Mike


#12

[QUOTE=Mike Lyons;9891]O.K. I lashed out and got an i1 Pro2 Photo kit. Specifically I want to check for linearizations issue on a 3800 - there seems some mid tone reversals on the prints compared to the calibrated ) screen image.

I can print the 21 step chart that come with the K7 Custom Profiling kit, but for the life of me can’t get the chart to be recognised by the X-Rite software, so I can’t bring it up to be scanned. I get “error reading cgats file” coming up.

I have tried both RGB and CMYK printer option variations, and have noted that some other test charts ( the TC9 and i1-Pro and others ) can be accessed.

If I could use one of those, how would it be possible to use the spread sheet etc in the K& profiling package to check if I have a linearization problem?

Mike[/QUOTE]

Seems I’m EXACTLY where you were last week. How did you resolve this?


#13

This is a summary of what I said to Mike in separate correspondence. I don’t know which of these two methods he used

  1. If you have an i1 Pro V2 then most likely you have installed i1Profiler software. This doesn’t have recognise the “QTR-21x4-random.txt” reference file that comes with QTR because it’s a greyscale file. i1Profiler needs a CMYK version of that file - “i1-profiler-QTR-21x4-random.txt”. Richard Boutwell has published instructions on this. He uses a Mac, but I imagine that the Windows version would be similar:

51 step version: http://www.bwmastery.com/blog/2015/a...rkflow-for-qtr
21x4 step version: http://www.bwmastery.com/blog/2014/i...qtr-stepwedges

There’s a URL link in the second link to a “Black and White Mastery QTR Toolbox” which should contain all the files you need, but all you really need is that txt file, which I’ve attached here anyway.

See also Keith Coopers more detailed instructions:
http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/article_pages/bw_printing/qtr-and-i1profiler.html

  1. If you’re on Windows, rather than iProfiler, you can still use the the Measure Tool from Profilemaker 5.0.10. You can download the demo from
    https://www.xrite.com/product_overview.aspx?ID=757&Action=support&SoftwareID=931 - [I]note: amended link[/I]
    I’m on Windows 7 and it works for me. I’ve also installed it on a Windows 10 trial machine and it worked there, so I assume that it works in 8.1. What I don’t know is whether it works with the i1 V2.

The full program needs a dongle to work, but you can do everything you need to in the demo. When it starts, it warns you that it is in demo mode, but the Measure Tool allows you to scan and save measurements, which is all you need.

Richard Boutwell says that it’s easier to use than iProfiler, and I agree with him. I think all the original Windows-based instructions assume the Measure Tool, so you’ll be able to follow them more easily. The problem for Mac users is that it no longer works on a Mac.


#14

Brian,
Thanks so much. I was re-reading your blog when you posted this info. Yes, I have i1 V2, so we will find out if it works.
You can expect some more inquiries as I journey toward relinearizing a couple curves.
Best,
John


#15

Perhaps I should add some of this to the blog. But first I’d like to know if the i1 V2 works with the old Measure Tool. It may not. I had cause to open MT tonight, and noticed that while the i1 is listed, there’s no separate listing for the i1 V2.


#16

http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/article_pages/bw_printing/qtr-and-i1profiler.html
Try using the chart and txt file ( I used the 21 step ) with the i1 Pro2.
Once the test chart is printed using the QTR GUI and measured ( CMYK mode ) it was relatively easy to do the rest from the Piezography Manual under Linearization/Custom profiles.


#17

Thanks Mike. Brian, I will let you know in the next day or three if it works with i1 V2. And Brian, you should add a blog link to your signature. I knew your blog was out there somewhere, but I had to go back through a bunch of posts to find the link… I’ve added your blog to my “favorites”, but others may have trouble finding it. A google search for “Brian S” isn’t very helpful :slight_smile:
Best to you both,
John


#18

If like me, you get a runtime error when clicking on Brian’s link to X-rite (in post #13 of this thread), a search for Profilemaker 5.0.10 got me to the correct place. Thanks again, Brian.


#19

I think Keith Cooper’s article is probably the better one, although for some strange reason clicking on Mike’s link got me to to Keith’s page not found page. I got there eventually, exactly where Mike said it was. Go figure. I’ve found a better URL for MT & PM5.0.10 and will amend the previous post

I remain a little uncertain how heavily to promote the blog. I’ll think about it.


#20

[QUOTE=Mike Lyons;9967]Hi Dana, I have done the smear test with the (shaken) bottle and ink cart.
Both appear to be identical.
The bottle ( Neutral shade 5 ) lot# is 131225 with best use date Nov 2016.

I can’t remember if I have done more than 1 fill for the carts, but judging by the amount left in the bottle and allowing for multiple power cleans, I suspect not. Can’t guarantee it, though.

Hope this helps.

Mike[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the additional information Mike.

Regarding your shade 5 ink printing too dark: I am using the same lot# ink in our studio printers with good/normal results (so I’m confident with the ink). It’s good that your bottle and cart ink smear match, that confirms the cart was filled with the correct ink. It’s possible for the ink in your cart and bottle to match, but print different- depending on what’s happening between the cart and print head.
I’d like you to add two more ink smears to the sheet you used for the shade #5 ink, and this time make a smear of shade #4 and #6 for comparison. Your shades 4 + 5 are printing similar density on your Ink Sep chart, but the three ink smears should be pretty equal in their density difference from each other.

Keep me posted- Dana :slight_smile: