R3000 LLK ink not flowing

r3000

#1

Dana,

I still have a problem with the LLK ink cartridge on my R3000. I left town for a week and now after repeated cleanings and nozzle checks there is little or no ink flowing. Do I need to flush out the system? What do you do if there is possibly some air in the line?
Thanks.

Everett


#2

Hi Everett~

I looked at your past posts, and see you originally mis-filled this cartridge, so had to refill it with the vacuum method to get ink into the exit chamber. Some air was likely drawn into your printer’s internal LLK ink line when you installed the cart with empty exit chamber and did some cleaning cycles in attempt to get it printing. This air has traveled thru the ink line and can interrupt ink flow when it reaches the damper and print head (which sounds like what you are likely dealing with). To resolve this issue and get back to happily printing: 1. check the cartridge (and ALL cartridges) to make sure the air vent plug is removed and air vent hole OPEN for proper ink flow, and circle exit chambers are at least 1/2 filled with ink, then 2. do a few cleaning cycles to purge air and get ink flowing again.

Please let me know how things go, if you have questions or if there’s anything else I can help you with.
Best regards~ Dana :slight_smile:


#3

[QUOTE=Dana-IJM;810]Hi Everett~

I looked at your past posts, and see you originally mis-filled this cartridge, so had to refill it with the vacuum method to get ink into the exit chamber. Some air was likely drawn into your printer’s internal LLK ink line when you installed the cart with empty exit chamber and did some cleaning cycles in attempt to get it printing. This air has traveled thru the ink line and can interrupt ink flow when it reaches the damper and print head (which sounds like what you are likely dealing with). To resolve this issue and get back to happily printing: 1. check the cartridge (and ALL cartridges) to make sure the air vent plug is removed and air vent hole OPEN for proper ink flow, and circle exit chambers are at least 1/2 filled with ink, then 2. do a few cleaning cycles to purge air and get ink flowing again.

Please let me know how things go, if you have questions or if there’s anything else I can help you with.
Best regards~ Dana :)[/QUOTE]

Dana,

All the air vent plugs were already removed when they were installed. The cleaning cycles do not open the line and I read where it is not good to do too many cleaning cycles. Is there any way of purging the line to remove the trapped air safely? The printer has been made useless without the LLK ink. Thanks.

Everett


#4

[QUOTE=Everett;808]Dana,

I still have a problem with the LLK ink cartridge on my R3000. I left town for a week and now after repeated cleanings and nozzle checks there is little or no ink flowing. Do I need to flush out the system? What do you do if there is possibly some air in the line?
Thanks.

Everett[/QUOTE]

Dana,
I have another question. Can I purchase the Piezography cleaning solution and purge all the ink from my printer? I want to switch back to the Epson inks. I got the LLK to work but now the VLM ink line is not working and the cartridge is filled with the proper amount of ink, etc… This system is far too frustrating to deal with.
Thanks.

Everett


#5

Hi Everett~

You can print from just the LLK channel using the QTR calibration mode, which will help purge the air from this ink line and damper without wasting ink in the other channels (which would happen if you did cleaning cycles). I have included instructions for doing this below.

PiezoFlush can be used with all printer models we support, but the print head cleaning kit can only be used with desktop printers that you can easily access the print head to clean (such as the R2400, R2880, 1400, R1900, R1800, etc…).

We have hundreds of customers happily printing with our refillable cartridges in their R3000 printers with excellent results. It is certainly not normal for inks to be printing well, then completely drop out. In my experience, when a position is printing well then totally drops out, this is caused by one or more of the following things: 1. closed air vent and is restricting ink flow, 2. cartridge not filled correctly (no ink in the exit chamber), 3. cartridge ran empty, or 4. some air from the initial cartridge instillation traveled thru the ink line and interrupted ink flow when the air reached the damper and head.

Prior to the VLM dropping out, did that cartridge run dry or very low, and was refilled- or it still running with the first fill or ink- or was it refilled, but the cartridge wasn’t empty or very low (still plenty of ink remaining in the exit chamber)?

Please let me know so I can help. We certainly want you to have the same great experience with these carts as our other customers using them in their R3000 printers!
Thanks- Dana :slight_smile:

[U][B]Flush individual channel using QTR Calibration Mode:[/B][/U]
To print from one specific ink channel (which is helpful when flushing just one line, without wasting ink in the other positions by doing power clean cycles), you can use the QuadTone RIP’s Calibration Mode.

[B]Mac:[/B]

[ol]
[li]Open the “inkseparation8” image in Photoshop (located in Applications> QuadToneRIP> CurveDesign> Images folder) and select “Leave as is (don’t color manage)” in the Missing Profile window. [/li][li][B]If using 10.6 or higher, Assign sRGB to the image; if using 10.5 or lower Assign AdobeRGB (1998) to the image.[/B][/li][li]Select the 100% patch of the color strip for the channel you wish to print (each strip is labeled with the color position) and make the entire image that color.[/li][li]Select the K7 version of your printer as your printer model then select the paper size you wish to print on in the Page Setup window.[/li][li]With Photoshop CS3 or below, select No Color Management in the Color Handling pull down list; with CS4 and above, select Photoshop Manages Color and the same document space as the profile (either sRGB or AdobeRGB) then push Print to continue.[/li][li]Change the Copies & Pages pull down list to QuadTone RIP. In the Mode pull down list, select QuadTone RIP Calibration (which will gray out the three curve pull down lists).[/li][li]Select 100% saturation if printing on scrap heavyweight, coated/print paper or about 50-80% if printing on uncoated, very thin or typing paper. Select the paper feed: either sheet or roll, 1440dpi is fine to select for this purpose bi-directional will print faster than uni-directional.[/li][/ol]

[B]Windows:[/B]

[ol]
[li]Make a color flush image by opening the “inkseparation” image in Photoshop (located in the C> Program Files> QuadToneRIP> bin folder). [/li][li]Select the 100% patch of the color strip for the channel you wish to flush (each strip is labeled with the color position), and fill the entire image with that color- save the image as “QTRflush-color position”[/li][li]Open QuadTone RIP and select the paper size you wish to print on[/li][li]Select Tools> Options> Calibration Mode, which will automatically open an ink separation image file.[/li][li]Open the flush image by selecting File> Open (this image is a very specific RGB color, which controls the individual channel when printed thru QTR’s calibration mode)[/li][li]Select 100% saturation if printing on scrap heavyweight, coated/print paper or about 50-80% if printing on uncoated, very thin or typing paper. [/li][li]Select the paper feed: either sheet or roll, 1440dpi is fine to select for this purpose bi-directional will print faster than uni-directional[/li][/ol]


#6

I’m having pretty much the same problems. I’ve been running the Cone inks in my R3000 for about 5 months with occasional cleanings need after refilling cartridges. Yesterday, my yellow cartridge ran dry before the chip said empty and after refilling I can’t get it to print. I ran the epson service utility in Parallels and did an ink charge (using about 1/2 of each of my ink cartridges in the process). Printed yellow with the QTR profile after and got faint yellow with severe banding on first page and that dropped off to nothing two pages later. Nozzle check showed just a few partial lines of yellow printing. Ran 3 clean cycles and no yellow at all. Later in the day I refilled all cartridges and ran another ink charge, but I forgot to top of the LC cartridge and it ran dry, so now I have the same problem with Y and LC. Did all the cleaning procedures from your video and now I’m stuck. The printer is useless to me now and the whole investment in the Cone inks and cartridges a big waste of time and money. It seems like my only options are to get a set of the piezo flush cartridges and charge the system until everything comes back. What else can I try?

The yellow cartridge was probably not completely refilled when the chip was reset, so it’s my fault the ink ran out, But there is little to no warning in any of your materials that the consequences of a cartridge running out could be so severe. If there had been I would have been a lot more careful. I’ve wasted a day on this and a lot of ink and I’m not a happy camper…


#7

Hi PGross~

In the R3000 refill cartridge instructions, at the top of the refilling section, it says [I]“Keep track of the ink level and do not allow cartridges to run dry. When a cartridge is empty and needs to be refilled, check the [FONT=Times New Roman][I]other carts and refill any that are low if you wish.”
[/I]
[/I]I believe we learn best by experience, and although the instructions we provide include a lot of very important information, it all becomes clearer after you have experience filling, refilling, resetting and using the carts/products. If we added details of all the bad things that could possibly happen if you don’t follow our instructions, then the document would be significantly longer. We have discovered short, direct and easy to follow instructions are best for the general population to read and follow. We have found if instructions are too long, many people just don’t read them- then contact us for help because they didn’t read something important…

Due to your Y and now the LC carts running dry, air has entered the internal ink line, which will interrupt ink flow when it reaches the damper and head.
If you are having an issue with one or two specific positions, then you won’t want to do an ink charge, because this will waste ink in the positions that you’re not having a problem with. In this case, I recommend working with the specific position(s) that you have air in, to avoid wasting ink in the other positions. I included information for using the QTR Calibration Mode for doing this above (in my last message to Everett).
Before doing this, please check the following: 1. since the cart ran dry, the exit chamber is empty- so the cartridge [B]must[/B] be vacuum refilled to get ink back into the exit chamber (plug the air vent to draw a vacuum in the cart), 2. the air vent hole [B]must[/B] be open for proper ink flow. After refilling the cartridge with ink, so the exit chamber is at lest 1/2 filled with ink and air vent hole is open (but the fill hole is plugged closed), gently tap the cart exit valve down on a folded paper towel a few times to force ink down and sir up- then install the cart into your printer, making sure it snaps in place for proper instillation.

Also, have you cleaned your printer’s capping station, wiper blade and/or bottom of the print head?
I see you purchased these refill carts nearly a year ago- how long have you been using them?

Please let me know if you have questions, how things go, or if there’s anything else I can help you with.
Best regards~ Dana :)[/FONT]


#8

Hi Dana,
Thanks for responding. You’re right that experience is the best teacher–and if I get my printer going again I’ll never let a cartridge run dry again, even if I have to check them everyday!

I did clean the pad, wiper and head. After letting it sit overnight I get some yellow printing with the QTR calibration mode. It’s like a 50% band of yellow lines. So at least that’s starting to come back. I get nothing with the LK. I ran a 5"x8" square of the LK 5 times and still nothing–and the cartridge doesn’t look like the ink level is dropping. Shouldn’t it be dropping if ink is moving into the line? Vent holes are open.

How many times is it safe to run the QTR with nothing printing? I’ll let it run 50 times if that will work, but I don’t want to do damage by printing nothing each time.
Thanks,
Peter


#9

Now after running the QTR I seem to have lost LK and LLK, in addition to Y and LC. It’s like the vent holes are plugged and lines are drying up, but the holes are opened, the cartridges are near full, and the exit holes are more than 1/2 full Any idea of what to try next?

Peter


#10

Not that I’m getting any help on here, but I did another ink charge and got back all but the Y. Today I received the piezo cleaning kit and used it where the yellow cartridge goes. Got a lot of yellow coming through the head. Did a cleaning and printed 5"X8" patch of yellow with the QTR and had some improvement, but as I printed 3 more pages to flush the solvent/ink mix out of the line it got fainter and fainter again (not pinker because of the flush solution). Also, ink level isn’t dropping in the Y cartridge. Is it possible that my Y cartridge is bad? The exit chamber has ink, the vent is open. When I do an ink charge, the level drops, when I just did a head cleaning, the cartridge level did not drop, and no yellow printed with nozzle check.

I guess I’ll go buy a Y epson cartridge and see if that works.


#11

Hi Peter~

Sorry for not responding quicker, I was nearly done my email to you yesterday, then my computer froze so I have to re-type, but now with your latest email, my response is slightly different.

From what you have explained in your last few emails, it sounds like you are dealing with poor flow, though with the cartridges filled, exit chambers at lest 1/2 full of ink and air vent holes open, you should not be having any issues… The causes that come to mind that could possibly cause the flow issues you’re experiencing are (many of which we have already checked): 1. Carts ran dry and air entered the ink lines, 2. Air vent holes are plugged and not allowing proper ink flow from the carts, 3. Carts not installed properly for a tight connection with the printer for smooth ink flow, 4. Exit chamber not primed with ink for proper flow.

You said the Y and LC carts did run dry, so it makes sense that air is related to the ink flow issues with those two positions, but did the LK and LLK carts also run dry (empty exit chambers) before refilling those carts as well?
I have never tried our print head cleaning kit on a R3000 as you explained by using it on the point in the cartridge chamber, and have only ever used it on desktop printer models directly on the print head, so have no experience with what you have done. We will send you a replacement R3000 Y cart to try, thinking your current cart is causing the flow issue you’re experiencing with this position.

Please let me know if you have further questions, how the new cartridge works, or if there’s anything else I can help you with.
Best regards~ Dana :slight_smile:


#12

Hi Dana,

Thanks for the reply. The LK and LLK cartridges never ran dray, and they are working now, as is the C. I put a yellow epson cartridge in and tried the QTR to flush it but I get the same problem. The first print has a few lines of yellow and then it fades away to nothing. Even I wait a few hours, the same result happens. I’m at a loss what to do next. Every time I unplug the printer to move the head, it powers back on with a clean cycle, and I’ve done that so many times that it’s used so much of my ink that I can’t even run a cycle of head cleaning anymore to try to charge the yellow line.

The strange thing is, that when I inject the piezo flush into the channel, I get fluid coming through the head. I ran enough through that I got pink coming out.
Is it safe to just print the yellow QTR all day long to see if the yellow finally purges? Or will that destroy my head?

I’m starting to think the head is damaged and is unfixable and I might be better off getting a new printer.


#13

It is becoming very obvious that the Cone inks simply do not work properly in the R3000 printer. As a result we both have printers that have been rendered useless. I would like someone to tell me how this ink system can be purged from the system without having to take the printer in for a expensive repair. The so-called “economy” of third party inks is a myth.


#14

If used as instructed, the system works brilliantly. We provide extensive instructions and caution against allowing carts to run dry. We sell on average 70 systems a month for the R3000 since introduction and it is one of our most popular systems. If it didn’t work there would be hundreds upon hundreds of R3000 users here with the same problem as you have. This is a very public technical support system and 100% of our customers have access to it and this is where help is administered.

If you mis-fill carts or let them run dry you will get yourself into issues (air in the ink lines and or dampers) that become difficult to overcome - but not impossible. Currently, Epson has not provided the end-user with any way to POWER CLEAN the R3000 printer. Obviously that makes things difficult for the end-user when they venture “off the menu”. The same POWER CLEAN function is missing from the X900 printers and those printers are having massive head failures with Epson inks which tend to clog them easily - as customers perform massive amounts of head cleanings and end up heating the heads beyond safe measures.

The best practices way to recover from allowing air to enter the system, or if you wish to charge the system with another brand of ink, is to use the Epson Adjustment Utility Software’s INK CHARGE function. This is what the Epson tech will do and it is an easy recovery. The INK CHARGE moves the equivalent of about 50 head cleaning operations in just under 8 minutes. Running 50 head cleanings is not recommended. It takes hours and will heat up the heads and it may not be effective when you have air in your system.

Install the Epson Adjustment Utility Software (on Windows or Windows for Mac) and select and run the INK CHARGE function. You can get the utility from 2manuals.com When you run it, all of the inks (and air) currently inside the ink lines and the damper system will be sucked through the capping station into the waste ink area. If you install the Epson carts prior to the INK CHARGE - then everything is purged out and replaced with Epson inks. If you simply run the INK CHARGE with the ConeColor ink carts, all of the inks (and air) in your system is purged out and replaced with fresh ink and you should be able to continue printing.

Chips need to be reset to 100% full only when the cartridge is 100% full. If the cartridge is less than 100% full and a chip is reset, the cartridge will run out of ink prior to the chip reading empty. That bit can be confusing to many because the assumption sometimes is that if a cart is half full and the chip is reset - that the chip somehow knows the cart is half full and resets to 50%. It doesn’t. It resets only to 100%. You could reset the chip on an empty cart and the chip will still read 100%.

I hope that you will run the utility and purge the air out of the system and keep ConeColor. If you would like to contact me off list - I will arrange a discount for fresh inks for you. We try to be here for you in every way we can - and I think it’s very possible for both of you to join the ranks of those using the R3000 successfully. You just got to get the air out! And then you have to not allow it back in again. Purge your systems from freshly filled carts and reset chips. You should be good to go. Contact me if you wish to at jon (at) inkjetmall (dot) com.

Jon


#15

Everett,
I wouldn’t say the inks don’t work–they’ve worked great for me for the last 7 months or so. The problem was running dry, which is way easier to do with refillable cartridges than with the Epson ones. If I can get my printer going again, I’ll happily stay with the Cone inks, and be sure to be way more vigilante with keeping them topped off.

Jon, I’ve run ink charges 3 times now on different days and each time I print the QTR Y purge page after and get a hopeful strip of yellow but that fades away to nothing after a couple pages. It’s almost like I get ink in the line and then it prints out with no new ink flowing in after it until I do another ink charge. Same thing happened with an Epson ink cartridge in now too. And when I get some printing with the QTR, if I do a nozzle check, I get just a few dashes of yellow showing, (even immediately after the ink charging and before printing the Y QTR) and on the second check nothing at all. I’ve soaked the capping station with cleaner and left the head parked on it for long periods. I’ve pushed piezo flush through the yellow line gently with the syringe (and fluid sprays out). ANd then I get the same result when printing–a page of yellow and then fade to nothing.

Before I give up, I’m trying to learn what could be going on in the system between cartridge and head, but it’s hard to fine info. Or if there’s something damaged in the head itself.


#16

Peter,

What is in between is the damper. It’s what holds a charge of ink and dispenses it into the print head.

If it is the damper these are available from Compass Micro. Compass is online and they are who “officially” dispenses EPSON spares to the end-user for self maintenance.

It might be that it is spent and needs to be replaced, or a very tiny leak (large enough to allow more air in than the piezo crystals can muster force against) but small enough not to be a match to the venting of the ink carts when doing the INK CHARGE.

I’m not saying that this is exactly what the problem is - but it sounds similar to a damper that is working well enough to allow the capping station to draw ink into it with suction through the print head. Then it prints fine - but eventually the print head starves for ink. Normally if the damper is functioning - all the inkjet orifices pumping ink in and out (piezo crystals) are enough to keep ink flowing into the damper to keep it full enough to do a print run. If the print run is long enough - the printer might perform an auto clean operation during the actual print cycle - and all that is really is a recharging of the damper via the capping station. That happens a lot with LF printers as an example.

  1. Is there some chance that auto cleans is turned off on this printer or you made some settings adjustment with the Adjustment Utility?

  2. Two full pages of yellow is a lot to ask for from a damper. It’s not normally how these printers print. If you were to print yellow signs you would use a setting like 360dpi and a lot less ink would be printed. Have you tried making regular full color prints since this started to see if it is working?

Dana may have some more ideas when she comes in on Monday.


#17

Jon,

What you say about the dampers sounds like what’s happening to me. Do you or Dana know of a way to determine if that’s the case?

I don’t see a setting for Auto Clean anywhere, where can I check that? I didn’t change any settings with the Adjustment Utility. Is there a way to check the settings I have?

Thanks for the additional info.


#18

Hi Peter~

I reviewed the extended parts diagram for the R3000 and see, like the 3800/3880- the cartridge chambers, ink lines, and damper assembly are all one unit. The ink system consists of the cartridge chambers, which lead to a ribbon of round ink tubes, then to a thin aluminum sheet with tiny labyrinth ink lines, which connect to the dampers (dual color dampers), then the print head. I have always been concerned about the tiny labyrinth ink lines as being a point for possibly causing ink flow issues, but after constant testing and use for the past year+, we are very confident in the quality and function of our refillable carts and inks in the R3000 printer, which is proving to be a great little machine (for the most part).

To put this issue in a slightly different perspective, comparing to if you were to let your car engine run out of oil- there are many factors that determine the effects and severity of damage. The biggest factors are the amount of time that passes, and how long the machine is run without fluid.

I am also not sure how your using the print head cleaning kit effected your printer’s ink system, as our cleaning kit is designed and instructed to be used directly on the print head, and I don’t know the effects of using it on the ink system including dampers and the thin labyrinth lines, as well as all the fittings in the ink system. Based on my experience, I don’t believe the dampers can take that pressure, and this may have made things worse…
It would have better to either have installed a new Y cart filled with PiezoFlush and printed the Y pages thru QTR to purge that line (which you essentially did with the Epson cart), or better yet- disconnected the dampers from the print head to use the print head cleaning kit directly on the print head, and/or used a syringe to draw ink thru the line from the base of the Y damper. Although we don’t provide instructions or support for repairing or dismantling printers, we do have the knowledge/experience (I like to take things apart to better understand the parts and how everything works), so if you’re willing and able to follow the repair manual to disconnect the damper assembly from the print head, I can give you some tips for drawing ink thru the damper and flushing the print head.

Please let me know what I can do to help.
Best regards~ Dana :slight_smile:


#19

Hi Everett~

To echo what Jon said above, the R3000 refill carts have been one of our top selling products for over a year, so if there were in fact a problem with the carts and/or inks, we would have several hundred unhappy customers. In reality, these cartridges and our inks DO work very well in the R3000 printers (as long as they are used as instructed). Please know we focus a great deal of our time and energy researching products and manufacturers, thoroughly testing products before releasing for public use, and continue using our products in our own printers on a consistent basis, so have a lot of knowledge and experience with the products we sell, which gives us confidence in the quality, and allows us to fully support them. Many other companies that sell third-party inks and/or carts don’t use the products they sell, so don’t have the in-depth knowledge that we have. Product quality and customer support are very important to us, we stand by our products 100% and are here to support our customers.

Since I am not in front of your printer, I must ask questions to understand the details of your situation and supply information based on the information you provide. On 4/15 I gave you information for purging air from your LLK line, but haven’t heard back from you until the latest message you posted, which doesn’t give me any helpful information regarding what you did or your results, but simply expresses your frustration- which I understand, but is not something that helps me understand your situation to help you resolve this issue and get back to happily printing. I need you- the customer- to help me help you by supplying useful/detailed/factual information, or I have no way of knowing what you are doing or what your results are.

Please supply me with the facts in regards to specifically what you have done and what your results are, so I can help you.

Best regards~ Dana :slight_smile:


#20

Dana,
I’m going forth on the assumption my dampers are clogged. I called Compass Micro, and it sounds like to replace them you have to buy everything from the cartridge dock, ink lines and the damper assembly that mounts on the head at a cost of $172. Given that I’d probably screw up the installation, or it might not even work, I want to avoid that. So is my next option to separate the damper assembly from the head and try to flush the head, and draw ink through the lines and damper?

Before trying that. I’d be willing to get a set of cartridges and piezo flush and ink charge that through the system. Is there much chance that could clean out the dampers at this point?

Peter