Cyan mixing with yellow ink in the damper


#1

Hi all,

I’ve got an issue with what must be cyan ink getting into the yellow damper somehow.
I recently put in a new set of dampers but when I took the old ones out, I noticed that the old yellow damper was full of bright green ink.
My printer is an Epson 7800. My yellow cartridge has bright yellow ink in it, but yellow is printing green right now. With the new dampers in place, I still seem to have the same problem. What could cause the wrong ink to get mixed in at the damper level?

Thanks, anxious to hear some suggestions,

David


#2

Hi David,

I am going to need some more information before I can advise on possible causes and suggest a fix. Please answer the following questions:

1.Can you see any of the Cyan ink in the Yellow ink line before the Damper? Indicating back suction?
2.When is the last time you cleaned or replaced the Capping Station, Wiper Blade and bottom of the print head?
3.Did you run any cleaning cycles after replacing the dampers to see if you could get the Cyan out of the Yellow channel?
4.What does your Nozzle check look like for the Yellow & Cyan channels, are there any missing nozzles in either of these channels?
5.Has the head ever been replaced in this printer?


#3

Thanks for the reply, I’m feeling pretty concerned at this point.
Below the numbered answers is additional information that is important.

  1. There is no Cyan in the Yellow ink line before the Damper.
  2. The entire pump and capping station was replaced 2 weeks ago.
    Before replacing the dampers (with Dampers from InkJet Mall) or the capping station, I saw that the OLD yellow damper had “green” ink in it before I replaced it with the new damper change. So this was happening before replacing dampers or pump and capping station.
  3. Also replaced the Flush box and the Wiper blade with new parts 2 weeks ago.
  4. I cleaned the bottom of the print head with folded paper towel and piezoflush as part of the parts replacement work I did 2 weeks ago.
    I ran cleaning cycles after replacing the dampers. At that point, there was no Cyan in the Yellow.
  5. I bought this printer used and I doubt it’s ever had a print head replaced.
  6. I use ConeColor ink in this Epson 7800 and it is fresh ink.

Important additional information so you have all the information and can respond:
So as I said, when I started to replace the dampers with new ones from Inkjet mall, I saw that the old yellow damper had bright green ink in it before I took it out. At the time, I didn’t know what meant at the time.
Prior to starting to work on the printer, I got prints that were satisfactory to me. The nozzle checks weren’t perfect but the prints looked good. There was never a consistent nozzle missing in the checks so I took that to mean it good to replace the dampers. As far as I knew, they had never been replaced.
After I replaced the dampers, I ran a cleaning cycle or two and was getting no ink through. So I took the new dampers out, checked the O-rings, put them back on to the top line connector and pulled ink through with a syringe. I found that it was a matter of having just the right tightness on the line to the damper connection and finally got it all back together, ran an initial fill and everything worked fine with all the colors printing as they should.
After that, I needed to do so printing for a show of my work that was opening soon, and was able to make some nice prints.
After a while though, the yellow started coming up green. I tried printing a whole 8x10 sheet of pure yellow and it was green.
Thinking it could be a problem with the cartridges (carts from Inkjet Mall), I pulled the yellow cartridge out and found that it had some wet BLACK ink on the outside of it. I pulled the BLACK ink cartridge out and it had a little black ink on it’s outside case as well. Using a light, I looked into the bay where the YELLOW cartridge goes and there is wet yellow ink on the back face of the bay where the nipple is. It’s very hard to get to to clean out. I squirted a little piezoflush on the ink just to keep it from setting up.
There is a little BLACK ink in the bay where the black cartridge goes too. Not as much as the yellow but some. There is nothing unusual in the MAGENTA or CYAN bay or on those cartridges.
That makes me wonder if it’s not CYAN that’s in the YELLOW but actually BLACK ink that’s causing the green color in the yellow.

Does this sound like a problem with the cartridges themselves? I have a set of Piezoflush carts. I could take the Piezoflush out of the “Black” and “Yellow” P. Flush carts and transfer the YELLOW and BLACK ink to those to cartridges if it seems to be a cartridge problem.

At this point, I’m really at a loss and really could use some advice to move forward.

Thanks much,
David


#4

Thanks for the reply, I’m feeling pretty concerned at this point.
Below the numbered answers is additional information that is important.

  1. There is no Cyan in the Yellow ink line before the Damper.
  2. The entire pump and capping station was replaced 2 weeks ago.
    Before replacing the dampers (with Dampers from InkJet Mall) or the capping station, I saw that the OLD yellow damper had “green” ink in it before I replaced it with the new damper change. So this was happening before replacing dampers or pump and capping station.
  3. Also replaced the Flush box and the Wiper blade with new parts 2 weeks ago.
  4. I cleaned the bottom of the print head with folded paper towel and piezoflush as part of the parts replacement work I did 2 weeks ago.
    I ran cleaning cycles after replacing the dampers. At that point, there was no Cyan in the Yellow.
  5. I bought this printer used and I doubt it’s ever had a print head replaced.
  6. I use ConeColor ink in this Epson 7800 and it is fresh ink.

Important additional information so you have all the information and can respond:
So as I said, when I started to replace the dampers with new ones from Inkjet mall, I saw that the old yellow damper had bright green ink in it before I took it out. At the time, I didn’t know what meant at the time.
Prior to starting to work on the printer, I got prints that were satisfactory to me. The nozzle checks weren’t perfect but the prints looked good. There was never a consistent nozzle missing in the checks so I took that to mean it good to replace the dampers. As far as I knew, they had never been replaced.
After I replaced the dampers, I ran a cleaning cycle or two and was getting no ink through. So I took the new dampers out, checked the O-rings, put them back on to the top line connector and pulled ink through with a syringe. I found that it was a matter of having just the right tightness on the line to the damper connection and finally got it all back together, ran an initial fill and everything worked fine with all the colors printing as they should.
After that, I needed to do so printing for a show of my work that was opening soon, and was able to make some nice prints.
After a while though, the yellow started coming up green. I tried printing a whole 8x10 sheet of pure yellow and it was green.
Thinking it could be a problem with the cartridges (carts from Inkjet Mall), I pulled the yellow cartridge out and found that it had some wet BLACK ink on the outside of it. I pulled the BLACK ink cartridge out and it had a little black ink on it’s outside case as well. Using a light, I looked into the bay where the YELLOW cartridge goes and there is wet yellow ink on the back face of the bay where the nipple is. It’s very hard to get to to clean out. I squirted a little piezoflush on the ink just to keep it from setting up.
There is a little BLACK ink in the bay where the black cartridge goes too. Not as much as the yellow but some. There is nothing unusual in the MAGENTA or CYAN bay or on those cartridges.
That makes me wonder if it’s not CYAN that’s in the YELLOW but actually BLACK ink that’s causing the green color in the yellow.

Does this sound like a problem with the cartridges themselves? I have a set of Piezoflush carts. I could take the Piezoflush out of the “Black” and “Yellow” P. Flush carts and transfer the YELLOW and BLACK ink to those to cartridges if it seems to be a cartridge problem.

At this point, I’m really at a loss and really could use some advice to move forward.

Thanks much,
David


#5

Ok, this helps figure out where to from here, thank you for answering all the questions in detail and adding more vital components to the story.

I would suggest you open the front cover and examine the ink lines for pure color. The yellow should be bright yellow, it will be very obvious if there has been back flow from the damper to the cartridge through the line. IF the black or cyan ink has made it from the capping station, up into the yellow damper and then back all the way to the cartridge you will need to do an INIT fill to clear the line of cross contamination of inks.

I suspect this is a cartridge issue not holding pressure the way it is intended. You should hear the pump coming on very frequently trying to pressurize the system. OR you should have a error appear on the LCD panel indicating a pressure problem. Can you verify either of these scenarios?


#6

Thanks for the reply, Kelly.

The ink in the lines is bright, pure yellow.

Actually, I haven’t heard the pump coming on frequently to maintain pressure in a cart. that isn’t holding pressure. And there have been no errors on the LCD panel.
I’m really stumped. Remember, from the info above, that there was ink on the outside of the black cart and the yellow cart and there is ink on the front of the area of the bay where they butt up against the printer. I suspect the cartridges aren’t sealing against the front completely but the pump hasn’t been working extra that I’m aware of. The ink in the Yellow cartridge is not contaminated by cyan or black.

What else could it be?

Thanks again,
David


#7

Hi David,

It is normal for there to be ink on the outside of the cart and nipple leading into the printer. This will build up over time and is nothing to worry about, unless it’s running down the wall into the cartridge bays, then I would be concerned with leaking seals in the cartridges. This should have no affect on black or cyan ink in the damper end of the ink supply.

Normally, when you see back suction of ink up into the damper of a different color is when the capping station is really old or dirty and gummed up with pigment. The print head will rest on the gummed up capping station and then suck up what ever color is usually next to each other. You said you replaced the dampers [U]after [/U]you replaced the capping station, correct? If this is the case then this scenario should have been eliminated completely. UNLESS, the print head already had some of that ink inside the yellow channel from before, which I would have suspected to have been moved out when you performed the cleaning cycles after replacement.

Try the new Yellow cartridge we are sending you, make sure it has a good prime on it before installing it. Once installed I suggest running 2 cleaning cycles, the a QTR flush image of the Yellow channel to verify the repair. If this doesn’t solve it, then the next thing would be to replace the Yellow damper again and remove the print head to give it a good thorough flushing with the head cleaning attachment. At the same time, clean the Capping station and Wiper blade again and make sure the Flushing box is cleaned and flowing freely.

After all of that, if the problem still exists, the only possibility left would be the print head manifold having a crack in the very thin film inside, allowing the cyan or black to enter the yellow channel. But, if that were the case, I would more think it would be the magenta mixing with the yellow because they are side by side.


#8

Hi Kelly,

Thanks for the reply. I appreciate the support because, like everybody else, I really need my printer and am concerned about it’s health and the costs of all the ink I’m wasting.

When I described ink on the black and yellow cartridges, I wasn’t talking about the little bit that would be around the nipple area. This was wet ink on the top and sides of the cartridge. I got ink on my hand as I handled the cartridge to wash it off. This has never happened before.

Yes, the dampers and the pump and capping station and the Flush box were all replaced at the same time. And as I said before, the old yellow damper also had green ink in it when I took it out for replacing with all new dampers.

Thank you for sending me a new yellow cartridge. I’ll try it out, after I get some more ink from Inkjet mall. Don’t have enough in there right now to run a power clean.

You mention the possibility of “remove the print head to give it a good flushing with the head cleaning attachment”. Do you mean to literally take off the print head? What is the head cleaning attachment?

Thank you for your time in answering me, I really do appreciate it. I’ve had great experiences in dealing with everyone at Inkjet Mall.

David


#9

Maybe a picture of the Black and Yellow cartridge while removed from the printer so we can see the ink you are referring too.

I would recommend rinsing your K cartridge out with distilled water and filling it with ink before running the cleaning cycles, to eliminate this cartridge as a possible cause as well as the yellow.


#10

I would send you a pic. of that but I already washed them off. It was on the flat top of the cartridge and on the side plane of the cartridges. more black ink on the yellow cart walls than black ink on the black cartridge walls but some on it as well.

How would rinsing and refilling the two cartridges help? refill with the same ink? You did mention that you are sending a replacement yellow cart., right? Should I rinse it before using it?

I know these are lots of questions but I need to understand.

Thanks, Kelly, for your patience.

David


#11

Is there anyway the yellow cartridge was placed into the Black slot by accident at some point? This is the only way I would figure the Black ink to be on the yellow cart with no indication of black ink in the yellow ink line.

Yes, go ahead and rinse both the Y and K flush carts out with distilled water, thoroughly, then fill with the K & Y pigment inks. I would also try to clean up the K bay as best you can to avoid getting this new cart dirty, just in case we need to continue diagnosing after these carts are replaced.

The replacement Y cartridge is on it’s way to you and you should see it by the end of the week, so you can use it to replace the flush cart you are going to using today.


#12

Hi David~

Is ink leaking from the cartridge air inlet points? If ink is only on the outside/top of your carts, then it’s likely dripping down from the cleaning area (capping station, pump, flushing box, etc), and I suspect you will find ink on top of your C + M carts as well. This could happen if any of the new parts you installed weren’t connected correctly (for example, the pump cap assembly and flushing box both have waste ink tubes that should lead to the waste ink tank, and not be pinched), or in extreme cases if the print head or a damper were faulty and leaking ink (which you would have seen by looking at the dampers or you would have gotten drips of ink on the paper while printing if the head was dripping), or an ink line wasn’t well connected to the damper (which you could also see easily).

Green ink in the yellow damper is something I’ve experienced before, and is caused by back-suction in the yellow channel, likely caused by old dampers that have a lot of build up on the screen, which restricts ink flow and causes back suction when cleaning cycles are done. Replacing your dampers should have resolved this if the back-suction was caused by the damper being clogged, so if it’s still happening after replacing dampers, then something else in your ink system is causing ink to get sucked into the yellow damper/channel.

I hope this helps~ Dana


#13

Thanks, Kelly. No, they’ve never been in the wrong locations, and even if they had been, the amount and placement of the ink on the external surfaces wouldn’t be accounted for by that.
I’ll do as you suggest about rinsing the cartridges, but what would that potentially do for them?

I think I need to take off the right side of the printer case again and check that there isn’t any leaking from the new pump and capping station area too.

David


#14

Thanks, Dana,

I agree that the ink might be coming from the cleaning area. I’m going to take off the side cover again and check it.
Haven’t seen any ink drips from the dampers but I’ll check again. It’s possible I didn’t tighten something enough when installing the new dampers.
Any idea of what the “something else” could be if the yellow damper/channel is still doing that after damper replacement?

Thanks again for your thoughts,
David


#15

Update:
Last night I pulled the right side cover from my 7800 to take a look at the pump and capping station. Everything looked good to me there. The drain lines did not appear to be kinked and I didn’t see any sign of ink where it shouldn’t be, other than the ink on the fronts of the black and yellow ink bays. Not just around the nipple. I described all of that above. I also took a look at the damper assembly and didn’t see any leaking. I haven’t really pulled it apart yet but nothing obvious to explain the green ink in the yellow damper.
I ordered some more ink last night from Inkjet Mall. I don’t have enough right now to run another power clean when I get the new yellow cart. in place.
After I get the replacement ink, I’ll move forward with the above suggestions from Dana and Kelly.


#16

Hi Kelly,

I haven’t received the replacement yellow cart. I haven’t been able to do any work on the printer until I get the ink I ordered from Inkjetmall. It should be here today. I just wanted to check on the cartridge since I don’t have any tracking info. for it.

Thanks,
David


#17

Hi David- My apologize, I looked up your order to see it was sitting in the system and hadn’t been sent to the warehouse yet, but it was sent today and you should be seeing it by the end of the week.

BUT for now, I thought you said you have a Yellow & Black cartridge that are filled with Flush? For a work around (which I was under the impression you were going to try) you can empty the flush carts back into the bottle, rinse with distilled water and fill with the pigment inks. When you receive the new cart you can simply use it for your flush cart again. This will get you started at least, to figure out if this is cartridge related or not.

Again, my apologize for the delay in shipping the replacement cartridge. Kindly-Kelly


#18

Thanks, Kelly. I appreciate your following up on that.
Yes, I can do that with the flush carts and I will. I was waiting to get some more ink of a couple of colors that were too low to run a clean with. That ink should be delivered today.

Thanks again,
David


#19

Kelly and Dana,

I got the additional ink from Inkjet mall that I needed and so was ready to proceed with figuring this out.
So, I pulled the damper box out to look at the dampers and the yellow damper had bright green ink in it as expected. I’m trying to upload a photo of it. The line going into the yellow damper had bright yellow ink, all the way to the entry to the damper. The Cyan cross contamination is coming into the head end of the damper.
I also found that the matt black ink damper was contaminated with Cyan ink. I think the rest of the dampers seemed to be OK.
I put it all back together after checking that the capping station and pump were OK and the Flush box looked OK. Remember from above, both of those are brand new.
I put in my cartridges that have Piezoflush in and ran some power cleans to fill the system with Piezoflush. That’s what it has in it now.
I’m nervous about putting the ink back in without a clear idea of what is causing this because I fear it will just happen again and this is all pretty expensive in terms of wasted material. Plus, I can’t use my printer.
The dampers I have in place are all new Inkjet mall dampers. But NOTE, when I went to put in the new dampers is when I noticed that the old yellow damper also had green ink in it. So whatever is going on, predates the new dampers, pump and capping station and flush box. I think I will replace all the carts on the right hand side of the printer with the ones that I currently use for piezoflush to rule out a cartridg causing this.
Bear in mind, that after I put in all those new parts, once I got the printer working again, it printed very well until seemingly suddenly, some days later, all this cross contamination came about again.
Please help! I need some ways to proceed.
Thanks for your thoughts!
David


#20

One other possibility from experience. With a Roland large format printer using Epson print heads, the capping stations are separated for pairs of print heads. They are considered routine maintenance replaceable parts and Roland supplies their customers with a small bag of capping stations.

When these print heads are divided into two separate colors (rather than 2 x 6 color printer, it becomes a 1 x 12 color printer) - contamination of one channel into the other is the result of a worn capping station. These are extremely easy to replace on the Roland. Replacing the capping station remedies the situation. When the capping station gets worn it usually does at one location rather than completely around the entire seal. While one channel is being pumped, any leak near an adjacent ink channel causes that channel to suck up the adjacent ink rather than being pumped. Cleaning operations on Epson printers or Roland printers using Epson print heads is the result of using the capping station to seal around the print head and suction is used. How one channel sucks up while the capping station sucks down seems to defy physics - but there it is.

So, I wonder if you have a pitted or worn rubber seal on your capping station, or some small bit of matter that is embedded on the seal allowing the leak. That may be the source of the contamination from one channel to another. So its worth trying to get a closer examination of the rubber seal. If you can put an illuminated scope on it - cool. If you can shine a light on it and take a very high resolution picture to look at it that way - that can work as well. What should it look like? It should look like a new capping station seal, rather than a worn, or pitted capping station seal. The seal is the rubber type grommet on the outside of the capping station. Look for a tear, a pit mark, a tiny cut, or worn area.

Kelly and Dana will be back on Monday - but in the meantime this may help you get sorted.