Those photos are tilted up to the light yes. I have others that were flat down that I think I sent as well. What I am am guessing is that the ink slipped inbetween the plastic case and the plastic membrane that holds the ink together. They look like a mess but I think they are operating correctly….
The situation with head clog does not seem to make much sense to me either. The whole thing sort of puzzles me.
I think you guys should have the package today.
Thanks for clarifying your cartridge photos. Your package arrived yesterday late-afternoon, and I quickly looked thru your prints, but didn’t have a chance to fully check, and am out sick today. I will be able to finish examining them and get back to you on Monday.
Best regards~ Dana
I printed one of the waves and there was a big black ink drop in the paper when it finished….When I moved it around I noticed that it had this green hue to it when it made contact with the paper. It led me to drop ink directly on the paper…PK LLK and LK. Attached are the photos. The LK when it dries or absorbs seems to turn green blue. This is seen also in the LLK but to a lesser degree. That tone, is the same cast that is created across all the prints that I am complaining about.
You will notice that there is a inner shape on the LK that is that color. Thats where the ink was dropped. The darker black part is after I wiped it a little.
Is the ink normally supposed to have that tone?
(photos are in seperate email)
Dana,
Have you recovered?
I have sent you guys a photo of two photos that are about 10 prints apart after changing back to Epson LLK LK and PK. You will see a difference in the color. The Green cast is leaving. As I continue to run more it becomes less and less. Jon spent a lot of time and wasted a lot of time with the color managment ideas. I realize that there is some credence to that concept but when the process is the same regardless of weather someone is doing it the “wrong” way it does not mater. Trouble shooting is about ruling out variables. I spent almost a week with Jon obsessed with how wrong I was manageiong the color and because of that obssesion he ruled out the possibility that something else was wrong and I think now we are starting to see that clearly something else is wrong and it has to do with the inks. I am guessing there is something defective with the LK or somethign was introduced to the ink. From a business stand point I think it would have been in your best interest to fully understand what was happening instead of Jon attempting to creat this preception that I was randomly changing color space and duplicating conversions.
M
OK, I did some print tests yesterday and today of both the QTR ink separation image and one of your wave images, using our 3880 set up with a full set of ConeColor Pro inks on Epson Luster paper. I printed from both a Windows 7 machine thru Photoshop CS3, and a Mac with 10.9 thru Lightroom 5. In both cases, I made one print of your wave image using our CCP-3880-EPluster profile, and another by selecting Printer Manages Color, and the Luster media setting in the Epson driver as you say you’re doing.
If you are finding the green cast is going away as you ring more, then I wonder if there’s a mechanical factor, such as possibly old dampers, etc… I am glad to hear the green cast is lessening, though am puzzled by this and the fact that you feel the color looked correct when the black wasn’t printing…
There has been some confusion about your workflow, because you originally said you’re “printing on Red River + Ilford and using their profiles”, then sent screen captures showing two different print setting combinations, and we weren’t clear about what you were doing based on the conflicting information and screen captures you provided. As per the letter you included in the package of prints, I now understand you are not printing with profiles, but rather selecting Printer Manages Color, and the Luster setting in the print driver.
Comparing the individual inks in our ink separation prints, I see some slight differences between the C and VM, but other colors look identical. Your Epson C is printing a touch darker and more blue than mine, and my VM is slightly more red compared to yours.
Our inks are carefully formulated to be a very close match to Epson UltraChrome K3, so inks can be replaced one at a time, and the standard Epson profiles/workflow works with our inks to produce very nice results that are acceptable for most users, but we also provide CCP-3880 profiles for better output with our inks and different papers. Some professional users who have the highest standards make their own profiles, or have us make custom profiles, as printers and media shift over time, and output can change with different printing applications, computers, operating systems, etc…
My prints of your wave thru Lightroom are very similar to each other with the two workflows, and close to your “Normal” print, with just a touch of cyan/green (but nothing like the “Green” print you sent).
My prints of your wave thru Photoshop are different from each other with the two workflows. The print made with Printer Manages Color, and selecting the Luster media setting is nearly neutral gray, and the print made thru our profile is very similar to my Lightroom and your “Normal” prints. I have attached scans below to help illustrate my findings, though looking at the actual prints (and not the scans), I feel my two Lightroom and Photoshop print (top/with profile) are a very close match to your “Normal” print, with a slight touch of cyan/green.
Here are two prints you sent:
My Lightroom prints (CCP profile on top):
My Photoshop prints (CCP profile on top):
I didn’t want to make that post too long and hard to follow, so to continue the above post:
I feel there may be a mechanical printer factor that were not clear about, based on some things you’ve reported that don’t make sense, but aside from that I feel the slight color difference in the C and VM channels may be contributing to the difference in your green print and my prints of your image. The ConeColor LK and LLK “blue drip” you reported is normal, and doesn’t effect how the ink prints (I won’t go into the scientific explanation about ink chemistry), as your LK and LLK inks are printing normal, which is a touch warm. It may be more noticeable because you’re printing close to neutral, which is difficult to perfect with color inks without using exact color management, but I expect you’ll notice a big improvement once you have the full set of ConeColor inks installed, and/or have a profit made for your exact setup and ink combination. You can make your own profiles using devices such as the ColorMunki, or we can make custom color ICC profiles.
If you’d like, I can return your prints, and include my prints for you to see better.
Best regards~ Dana
Thnaks for the response. I just got back in from a job and will look all this over……You obviously did a lot of work here and its goign to take me a little bit to look this over. Clarification on two things……I print with a lot of different papers and through different programs. The consitant thing is that for the most part I control the print in all applications with the printer……also the tint is lessening having replaced the color cone with epson Lk LLK PK……My C and VM are Epson. My LC and LVM are cone. Right now those are the only Cone inks in there.
I totally understand that every process is going to print slightly different. The question to me is assuming my process is the same though out this how am I gettting a color shift like that and how has it changed since introducing Epson Lk LLK and PK? How do we trouble shoot that? I am not talking about subtle differences in print color but I think as you saw in my prints I emailed to you today as I ran the new ink there is a difference in in the ink somewhere. You got that photo I sent with the cut photos over eachother that I printed 10 prints apart?
Let me look all of what you wrote here a little more. I was going to buy the Data Color system but Jon thought it was not neccessary. I can still do that but I am still wondering what todays prints mean……
One other note. The prints you posted do look very green for the most part which is sort of implying that my monitor is totally off but I had all these printed much larger with another printer and they matched what I was getting when things were working. Had I sent the prints to them and found the same issue I would deffinatly suspect that my monitor was way off or that the printer orginianlly was way off and now that they printed with you more green My printer with the cone inks was actually printing correctly……
Ok a couple points to clarify because I am still not sure there is any real solution here or cause.
Replacing Cone with Epson Lk LLK and PK as started the color to change back to what I use to see using the same process. How do we explain this
If the ink is far enpough away from Epson that it needs its own profile would it mean that if you are switching out inks and mixing them you will always have a shifting profile?
the prints that you made look pretty off from what I have printed and what I see on the (calibrated) monitor. The prints dont look like what I had another printer print with those same files. I have some serious confusion here. The wave photos were just done and I have printed other large formats prints up at two printers in Boston and both printers matched color to what I have seen on my monitor and printed……
The big question is how do I fix this situation? IT appears to me that there is something up with the ink. How do we rule that out.? Or are you saying that because the tests I sent match what you have there that the ink is actually what it is supposed to be and in reality the inks need to be completely changed and only used with a CC profile and not ever be used with epson managing the color?
I sort of need to get a solution to this whole thing. My temporary solution has been to repurchase Epson Inks and get the color back. Long term I would like a less expensive solution but this problem has been both time consuming and costly. So if there are no other options here in terms of dealing with the issue I am going to have to return permantly to Epson.
I see that you were using CS3 I think thats why Jon thought that there can be duplication in the color management. In later versions of Photoshop and LR it will automatically not let you duplicate
It doesnt seem like I am goign to get an answer to any of this stuff?
Hi stavaridis~
I have spent a great deal of time testing and troubleshooting your situation, by printing different samples with several printers and inks, with various profiles and settings, etc…
In my collection of test prints, I have confirmed there is no color difference between EP and CCP PK, LK and LLK inks, so the fact that you say you switched them back to EP inks and the green cast is going away makes no sense, as does your report of the green cast going away when the black ink wasn’t printing. As I said before, the main difference I see in the EP and CCP inks is the color and density of VM.
Due to all the unusual factors in your situation, to resolve this issue and get you back to happily printing, I recommend installing the flu set of ConeColor Pro inks, doing 3 power clean cycles to get the full set of CCP inks to the print head, then print targets following our instructions and mail them to me to make custom color profiles for you. I would be happy to make you 3 free custom profiles ($300 value) for your 3880 ConeColor setup to optimize the output for your specific printer, ink, paper and computer setup.
I will email you everything you need to print targets and have custom profiles made.
Best regards~ Dana 
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