I’m only working with you on the excessive amount of GO printing on the last 6-7 papers. Dana is working with you on the GO stopping issue.
Excessive GO will cause softening of the image. So I just want to make sure that we are talking about excessive in the same vocabulary.
If I understand that you are saying that the GO print head prints excessively sometimes on the same paper and sometimes normally on the same paper - and you are thinking mechanical…I would suggest that the only thing I can think of would be that the print head in that position is no longer able to produce micro dots (the smallest of the three potential dot sizes) and excessive amounts of ink are coming out as a result of the larger picoliter droplet size being emitted because of mechanical decay in the piezo crystal.
If something like this was happening and it were not mechanical then I woud look at it being software related. Did you upgrade to Mountain Lion…if not what is your workflow (OS and App versions for printing). Are you absolutely printing without color management? Are you printing a white image as we instruct or are you reprinting the image with GO rather than overprinting through a white image?
If I am completely off base in understanding you, it is nearly mid-night here in Vermont.
I appreciate you jumping in on this specific issue and understand that it is separate from the other GO issue, which Dana is handling.
I have not changed my printing environment at all since I got piezo last august. I’m running Mac OS 10.6.8 and using the QTR print module (version 1.0.7).
I should check one thing that I’m doing first, as this may just be something caused by a misunderstanding on my part. In order to test the GO coverage issue, I’ve been using spare prints I have laying around the studio that have been printed on other printers - specifically a canon 8300 and an epson 11880. I thought one could print GO on other types of prints but is there an incompatibility with those inks and GO? The reason I’m now wondering this is that I just coated a print from the canon 8300. Where there is no ink, the GO looks fine but where there is ink it is quite “wet” and smearable.
I haven’t been paying attention to what printer output which prints I’ve been testing, but I just did a test on a couple of prints I know were from the canon and both had the problem. Then I printed a new print on the epson 11880 and printed GO over it with no problem. Both were printed on epson premium lustre. So in my limited testing it seems GO isn’t liking the canon inks but is OK with the 11880 inks. Is this the issue? If so, apologies as it looks like I was causing the issue. Also would explain why I hadn’t seen this before, as it’s only recently in trying to minimize my cost in testing the coverage problem that I’ve been using prints from other printers.
Are you printing from QTR PrintTool?
yes (version 1.0.7)
Do you have it set to No Color Adjustment?
yes - I select no color adjustment in PrintTool. I’m printing a 1x1" pure white greyscale image (gamma 2.2 embedded)
Are you using the GO curve you received from us or from Roy?
yours
When you print from QTR PrintTool to QTR - what are your settings in QTR?
QuadToneRip 8-bit
your curve (7890-9890-30000GO)
Paper Feed-sheet
Resolution-1440
Speed-bidirectional
I don’t change anything else (curve 1 has highlights, midtones, shadows =100)
Did you see my comment above about this only happening on prints from the canon 8300 in the inked areas? Now I’m wondering if it’s some interaction between GO and their inks.
Sorry I did not see that this was occurring only when printing over Canon inks - and I have no way to trouble-shoot the use of GO on Canon prints. But, still, if there is too much GO printing as you say - then please take my earlier suggestion to read the manual section concerning editing the GO curve. Reduce it from its current setting of about 46% coverage to something substantially less.
Can I get an update on the status of the problem of GO printing prematurely on newer Epson printers? I know you are working on it and have requested information from me which I’ve supplied. I’ve been stalled out with this issue for many weeks now, though, and it would help to know what you know (sounds like others have reported this and/or you can replicate it yourself on a 7900?), what you think might be the cause (all I’ve heard is something sensor based), what you’re doing and what the prospects are in your best opinion for a fix.
I’ve been stalled out with piezo printing now for many weeks with this problem so I’m eager to get some prognosis.
I did more tests today and discovered this problem is somehow related to QuadTone RIP, because I was able to print over a print thru Photoshop and the Epson driver, but every time I tried printing the same images thru QTR, the GO stopped short (in the exact same place every time). I am sending a report to Roy now and will work with him to troubleshoot and resolve this issue. Unfortunately, I don’t know of any way to print pure ink from an individual channel using the regular Epson driver. Do you have another RIP that has individual channel control? I will keep you posted on my results after working with Roy.
Interesting! I appreciate the update and it sounds like progress has been made, because it seems you’ve narrowed the problem down to something specific to QTR. Unfortunately I don’t have another rip so have to wait for a solution from you and Roy.
It also sounds like my experience may differ a little from yours? I don’t get failures every time - probably 60% failure, perhaps more. Mine don’t always fail in the same spot either, though most do, they get maybe 60% of the way through the sheet before stopping. But I’ve even seen it print 1/2" of GO, skip a few inches, print some more, and then stop.
Please keep me posted with any progress or any way I can help with testing.
Yes, I will let you know as soon as I have heard back from Roy and if he is able to fix this issue.
I tested a variety of different top/bottom and side image margins thru QTR on Mac and Windows. My tests had mixed results, with some image/paper size combinations working and printing GO over the entire sheet (though I didn’t test printing multiple copies of the exact same image/paper size to check if the results are the same every time). On Friday, I tested the exact same image, size, paper, etc… thru the Epson driver and QTR from a PC, and proved the printer allowed printing over an existing image thru the Epson driver, but not thru QTR (in regular or calibration mode). I don’t fully understand the install scripts and programming with QTR and controlling different printer models, so am anxiously waiting to hear back from Roy and hope he has an idea.
In the meantime, I recommend you continue regular cartridge agitation and use of the printer by doing some matte printing or at least a few cleaning cycles (after shaking the ink carts) every week. This will help keep ink flowing to avoid sitting still and pigment settling, which will cause density shift in your Piezography output.
Any word from Roy? I’ve got a lot of built up demand for type 5 printing here and really am in need of a solution on the GO problem.
With regard to your suggestion about maintenance - it took me 6 head cleanings and then a power cleaning to get my linearization back. I’ve been agitating the carts every week and doing at least a few small prints. I was surprised I needed so many head cleanings, especially the power cleaning, which I wasn’t happy about since those are expensive.
It would really help me to know exactly what I need to do to maintain the linearization when not printing regularly. Can you quantify more clearly what should be sufficient? “some” matte printing, “a few” cleaning cycles, is all very vague. What I need to avoid is the situation where a client asks for a print and I don’t know if the printer is in a state to do it properly. I can’t afford to print and measure the 21 step greyscale every time to make sure the printer will behave. Can you tell me specifically what you do in terms of agitation, printing (size and number) and head cleanings on your less active machines to keep them reliable?
I hope once the GO problem is resolved and I can officially launch my piezo printing service this issue will go away as I’ll be doing lots of printing!
Unfortunately, Roy doesn’t seem to be able to help with this issue because Epson changed some scripting for these newer printer models and isn’t giving him the necessary keys to write support as he has been able to do with past printer models. He was able to use the scripts from the 7880/9880 to write support for the new x890 and x900 models, but apparently it’s missing a few keys for some of the new features and sensors these models now have…
I am now working on finding other ways to print GO, hopefully thru the Epson driver because I seem to be able to print over an existing print thru the regular print driver but now need to determine how to control just the LLK channel thru a profile and the Epson driver. We want to avoid the other options of 1. getting a second printer (9880 or 9800 model) to print the GO layer or 2. manually spray coat prints (which can be very difficult to get right, not to mention highly toxic). This is certainly a real problem, and I am working hard to find the solution!!
I am open to suggestions if you think of or discover anything that may be helpful in my work towards finding the answer to this problem, otherwise I will keep you posted on my efforts and hopefully have a solution for you very soon!
Could I get an update on progress and/or thinking on the GO problem with newer epson printers?
Neither of the theoretical solutions you mention (another printer or manual spraying) will work for me at all. So I’m really hoping you guys can figure something out.
Hi Bob, Ken and anyone else struggling with this GO printing issue with the new x900 and x890 printers~ To give you an update, I was preparing for and at SPE last week, so was unable to do any testing, but am now back in the office and am already brainstorming and testing ways to resolve this issue. I realize the urgency of this problem, and am dedicated to finding a solution ASAP.
I am working hard and will be in touch very soon, best regards~ Dana
I just wanted to give everyone an update and let you know where I’m at. I have been testing, testing, testing with our 7900 printer with a wide range of image and paper size combinations, trying to find a connection between what works and what doesn’t work- documenting every little detail about image/paper size, margins, computer information, print settings, workflows for printing GO, etc…
I was excited and thought I was onto something yesterday, because I was successfully printing GO over every image (various sizes) I printed on 24x36" sheets with the printer in MK mode, printing from QTR on a PC. Then I repeated a test on letter size paper I did last week, and it stopped short just like my last test …Hmmmmmm… This morning I am back to testing, and trying to find out why all my 24x36 prints were working, but the exact same image with the exact same margins on letter size paper did not. I will also try the same image/margins on other paper sizes to cross check the results.
Can anyone share their input on the various image size, paper size, paper margins, computer platform, workflow and print settings they have used to print GO with their x890 or x900 printers: what combinations successfully printed over the whole sheet, and what combinations stopped short, and if the results were repeatable? Having more data to add to mine would really help me (HOPEFULLY!!!) find the key/solution to this strange problem and get you all back to happily printing Piezography gloss!!! I’m on my own here, Roy said he’s not able to 1. understand why it’s happening with QTR and not the Epson driver, and therefore 2. unable to help fix the problem…
Please and thanks!! I will continue to keep you posted with my testing + results, together I’m sure we can find the answer!
I have tested this on probably a half dozen different size sheets since I was aware that the problem wasn’t something I was doing. Ranging from 8.5x11 up to 16x20s. Image sizes were typically just a bit smaller than the sheets. Margins varied but enough to fit within the minimum required by QTR. Printed in PK mode. One thing I’ve tried at Roy’s suggestion was printing a white image the size of the original print. I’ve also tried making the image 254, 254, 254 instead of pure white. Neither helped.
I’m on a mac running 10.6.8. My experience is that with all sizes and variations, the results are unpredictable. Sometimes I’ll coat 3 in a row successfully then it fails. I have not found any specific combination to be repeatable more than a few times.
Have you tried the following testing strategy: print a complete image over a sheet that has already been printed, making the second image the max size the sheet allows (to emulate the scope of the GO coating). If this works then it seems that the only difference in the QTR code should be the way in which it limits the ink to the LLK channel rather than using all the channels. By examining that code path it seems it should be possible to isolate the problem (whether or not it’s fixable without info from Epson). Just a thought from my days writing software long ago…
Thanks for your efforts on this - we appreciate any and all updates just so know something is happening…
Was a solution found for this? Although my Glossy & Matt Special Edition inkset for my Epson 7890 is currently gathering dust due to other issues, I installed the GO cartridge to do some glossy overprinting…and unfortunately ran into the same complications as colorfolio and the others. Did anyone by any chance find a solution?
Hi Dana, I’m running an Epson 9890 K7 selenium matte and glossy----and also having difficulties at times with GO. The GO will cover most of the image but stop (always same spot) about 3/4 the way through. Hard line stop. Frustrating. I recall having the same issue very sporadically on a converted 9800 with the GO as well. At the Capture Integration in Carmel workshop, this issue only came up once during the printing class. I shut down the printer and re-booted the computer and all was well. No such luck this time around. Image is about 11x14.5 on Cone 5 roll, 17x20. GO then printed custom size 17x20. GO stops 3/4 the way through. Double-checked paper size—same workflow as always. Tried again to print white square for GO and for kicks an giggles checked “fit to size” but still the same incomplete GO coverage stopping at the same spot.
I just printed the same image (same size) on a 24" roll of Cone 5, different orientation—and it worked! The printer printed the GO almost edge to edge (24x20 sheet size) but did stop about an inch from the end of the paper. Much more paper waste (width), but at least I could limp along and print K7 glossy!
No issues printing B&W initial image for glossy K7; only have issues with GO stopping and not covering entire print.
No issues printing B&W matte K7
Epson 9890 (9890 quad selected on QTR)
Win 7 Professional, dedicated laptop to printing only K7 piezography on 9890, QTR
Any updates for a solution?? Does anyone have suggestions for other workarounds?? I already have a 4800, 9900, and the K7 9890—no more room for a dedicated GO printer!
Hi Bob, Bill, Ken and any other people using the 7890/9890, 4900 or 7900/9900 to print Piezography gloss (or any other process that requires printing an image over an existing image)~
I have successfully printed GO over many prints, but have not yet been able to determine the key to if there’s any pattern to what works and what doesn’t. I am continuing to test (even as I type this), and am looking into possibly using the Epson driver as a solution, but currently do not have a solid answer. I am continuing to test and will keep you updated. Right now I’m going to call Epson and question them as to why my printer won’t allow me to print over an existing print, and see if they can help me at all, since what I have learned for sure so far after all the testing I’ve done, is this seems to be a printer sensor issue… and I think we should be able to print multiple image layers if we want as part of our creative workflows!
All your feedback and details of what you have done, etc… is very helpful for me to add to my data in hopes to find the solution for everyone, so I appreciate your input/feedback!
Still working on it and not wiling to give up~ Dana
It makes sense about the printer sensor, and maybe it is a combination of factors as well. Sheet feeding isn’t exactly a strong point for these Epson printers, and paper curl doesn’t help matters any more. I really wasn’t having too much difficulties printing the GO, so it must have been Bob that jinxed us all!
I’ll keep playing around with settings, image orientations, etc. and see if I can detect a pattern…
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