QTR and lack of sharpness with K7 Selenium?

qtr
quadtonerip

#1

New Epson 3880. QTR (Latest version for Windows). Windows 8.1 64-bit. K7 Selenium loaded. Hahnemuehle Photo Rag.

I’m getting very soft and unsharp prints using the above and QTR. If I print via Qimage Ulitmate the sharpness is apparent and quite remarkable over QTR. Photoshop may be a bit better than QTR in that it doesn’t use all the inks I believe, nor does Qimage which is the sharpest of the three for now. Second 3880 (Color one, loaded with your dye inks.) shows good sharpness of same image too via Qimage.

I took the same B&W image to the local commercial lab and their results were very good to on sharpness over my fuzzy QTR one (Same size 11x17). Detail is seen in hair strands and concrete texture, but QTR isn’t showing that for me.

Any ideas as to how to get better sharpness out of QTR? I don’t know anything of the Mac version of QTR and if it has better sharpening than the Windows version (I tried both the 2880 and the 1440 settings in QTR. The 2880 is better, but far behind Qimage set on sharpness #12 (About 70% of its scale.).

Thanks.

Mack


#2

Hi Mack,

QImage has a number of different sharpening schemes built into the application. QuadTone RIP does not have any sharpening algorithms built into it. QTR leaves sharpening to the end-user’s responsibility. Some users like no sharpening, some like sharpening, and still others like over-sharpening. It is a very personal preference. You can sharpen at 100% view in Photoshop for the most control. You can sharpen as much as you prefer. K7 and QTR will faithfully reproduce actual pixels view.


#3

Thanks Jon.

Someone suggested running the image in question through Qimage as a “Print to File” that would use its sharpening method, and then print that saved/processed file through QTR. Seemed to helped a little, but still not seeing a sharpness with same printed through Qimage alone. I suspect Qimage is not using all the K7 inks for B&W, maybe less since the LLK is the Gloss Optimizer, whereas QTR uses them all.

I was wondering though if piezeography is similar to film? Kodalith was used for sharpness in making printed circuit boards with fine copper lines, and it was favored for sharp transitions over regular tonal range film (i.e. Tri-X) which produced a softer edge on board making. Could same be behind K7 inks? That is, more shades of black ink for a broader tonal range at the expense of sharpness?

Mack


#4

Qimage is not compatible with K7 inks. So, you will not get a linear image by printing with a RIP that thinks the printer is loaded with color inks. I hope that you are using QTR correctly to print K7. There is some possibility that what you are seeing is a result of not fully understanding how K7 works. Do you think that may be possible?

Did you read the installation instructions that shows what ink slots each shade is put into?
Did you read the NEW Piezography Manual and are you using K7 curves or are you using QTR curves for a different ink set?

Piezography is capable of printing tack sharp at enormous enlargements provided the image file is at a very high standard or preparation.

So there may be two issues not looked at: proper use of K7, and image preparation. We do not have enough information from you to know about either. So please let us know how you are using K7 when you use QTR.


#5

Thanks Jon

Still struggling with sharpness using Hahnemeuhle Photo Rag (White. 305gm paper). It came with the 3880 as a sales deal from Adorama (Bad batch? Seconds?).

I was just reading on your Page 3 on “New Papers and Coatings” and saw this:

“Also, we’ve been observing the effects of ink bleed on a series of non-standardized batches of Hahnemuhle Photo Rag since 2007. There have been dozens and dozens of coating issues on HPR that have caused our K7 inks to bleed slightly or heavily. In fact, HPR is so notorious for batch to batch QC that we introduced custom K7 profiling in order to eliminate the bleed on sub-standard batches and facilitate its die-hard users who refused to find an alternative paper.”

My problem is very noticeable on a watermark. I use a RGB 37,37,37 gray with white 12-point type on top of that RGB on the above article’s paper (and mine!). Seems the blacks (either PK or the MK) on that paper might be bleeding into the white type area? The commercial lab returned the same print to me today and their type is razor sharp. My QTR K7 Selenium on the above paper is not. Very soft and fuzzy. Ink bleed maybe?

Any paper I should try for better sharpness than the Hahnemuhle Photo Rag White 305 gm that I have?

I sent Dana in the Ink part of the forum my QTR Curve to get a 21 step range. Seems it takes a lot of the Cyan curve to get the step near the dMax Step 21 black too. Maybe too much ink and bleeding into my white typeface? I get a good linear look and scaling, but the white type is fuzzy/soft/not white.

I’ll see if I can attach it here, but I did manage to get it posted in the Piezo Ink side earlier today.

HELP!!!

Mack




#6

It almost sounds to me that you are printing on the wrong side of the paper. Is that a possibility that you are printing on the uncoated side which is making the ink absorb into the paper? The best way to test is to just lightly touch your tongue to each side. Your tongue will want to stick to the side which has the inkjet receptor coating. Another way is to just barely moisten your thumb and finger. Then grasp the sheet between your thumb and finger and then let go. The side of the paper with the inkjet receptor coating will stick. The side that is uncoated will not stick. So your thumb or finger will be stuck to the correct side for printing. If you have bleed - there is definitely something wrong with your coating or you are printing on the uncoated side of the paper. Hahnemuhle Photo Rag is very sharp printing so I am sorry that you are having continued trouble.

I made these curves and the curves are correct and with the right amount of ink to reach dMax of about 1.68 as well as print extremely sharp. Your system is also nice and linear. You should mail us a print or two to;

Tech Support
c/o Inkjetmall
17 Powder Spring Rd
Topsham, VT 05076

I will let you know if you got bum paper from Adorama.
It would also be helpful to see the image file and the resultant print of your fuzzy image. Include those in the same package.
We will help you get to the bottom of this.
Something is definitely not right with your setup.


#7

[QUOTE=joncone;4082]It almost sounds to me that you are printing on the wrong side of the paper. Is that a possibility that you are printing on the uncoated side which is making the ink absorb into the paper? The best way to test is to just lightly touch your tongue to each side. Your tongue will want to stick to the side which has the inkjet receptor coating. Another way is to just barely moisten your thumb and finger. Then grasp the sheet between your thumb and finger and then let go. The side of the paper with the inkjet receptor coating will stick. The side that is uncoated will not stick. So your thumb or finger will be stuck to the correct side for printing. If you have bleed - there is definitely something wrong with your coating or you are printing on the uncoated side of the paper. Hahnemuhle Photo Rag is very sharp printing so I am sorry that you are having continued trouble.

I made these curves and the curves are correct and with the right amount of ink to reach dMax of about 1.68 as well as print extremely sharp. Your system is also nice and linear. You should mail us a print or two to;

Tech Support
c/o Inkjetmall
17 Powder Spring Rd
Topsham, VT 05076

I will let you know if you got bum paper from Adorama.
It would also be helpful to see the image file and the resultant print of your fuzzy image. Include those in the same package.
We will help you get to the bottom of this.
Something is definitely not right with your setup.[/QUOTE]

Jon,

Images, my K7 and a commercial lab’s prints, and blank sheet of the Hahn. Photo Rag 305gm paper are enroute.

Thanks.

Mack


#8

Ok! We will get to the bottom of this issue and get you happily printing on K7!


#9

Was there a resolution to this thread?

Thanks
Dave


#10

Hi Dave, I don’t believe we ever heard back from Mack after the last communication on this other thread: http://www.inkjetmall.com/tech/showthread.php?717-Need-a-generic-QTR-profile-for-Canson-sample-pack-with-K7-Selenium-ink

Mack- please update this thread to let us (and others) know how your situation turned out. I’m also curious to hear your feedback after examining the prints we sent of the image you supplied.

Best regards~ Dana