Prints too dark


#1

This is similar to other threads but I don’t see a solution was obtained.

I just converted an Epson 3800 to Selenium K7. My monitors where I work on prints are calibrated. My iMac is running 10.9.1 and I also have an Eizo CE240W calibrated off my iMAC.
I am processing using Camera Raw inside Bridge,Photoshop CS6 and Nik Sliver effects Pro within Photoshop. I am printing from QTR Print tool onto the Epson 3800 using an older Macbook Pro to which I transfer the final Tiff image from the iMAC.
I am printing on Epson Exhibition fiber paper, using the downloader curve. (Of note, seeing the print come out too dark, I did not bother putting on the gloss coat. I assume this would not lighten up the print)

I am trying to print a winter scene. I have made the snow in the foreground a neutral white, but the printer keeps printing it a darker gray, and the remainder of the print darker than shown on the screen. I have tried both AdobeRGB 1998 and ProphotoRGB colorspaces.

thanks very much
JOrdan


#2

H Jordan~

We have done quite a bit of testing on this issue recently, and discovered dark output with several Mac OS, with a variety of curves, settings, and QTR versions.
After much testing, we got perfectly linear output after upgrading both QuadTone RIP and QTR Print Tool to the latest versions. What versions are you correctly using? The latest QTR version is 2.7.5 and QTR Print Tool is 1.1.0

I hope this helps, please let me know if you have questions or there’s anything else I can help you with.
Best regards~ Dana :slight_smile:


#3

Dana
My print tool is 1.1.0
As the RIP is a folder with many files, I am not sure which one to check for an exact version, although my receipt says version 2.7. However, I downloaded both of them on April 26th so they are quite recent.

thanks
Jordan

[QUOTE=Dana-IJM;3881]H Jordan~

We have done quite a bit of testing on this issue recently, and discovered dark output with several Mac OS, with a variety of curves, settings, and QTR versions.
After much testing, we got perfectly linear output after upgrading both QuadTone RIP and QTR Print Tool to the latest versions. What versions are you correctly using? The latest QTR version is 2.7.5 and QTR Print Tool is 1.1.0

I hope this helps, please let me know if you have questions or there’s anything else I can help you with.
Best regards~ Dana :)[/QUOTE]


#4

Hi Jordan,

If you have the latest versions of software - then your output should be linear - although we can also assist you in determining that.

  1. You did not mention to what standards in Gamma and Brightness your displays are calibrated to. The color temperature is important as well, but only if you are using a viewing booth with which to compare your prints to your display. But, let us know the kelvin temperture, gamma, and brightness level so that we can advise you on calibration. You can find these target settings in the Color Navigator software which should only be used to calibrate the Eizo CE240W.

  2. We assume that the inks are installed correctly and that you are using the correct K7 curve with the media you are printing. The GO when applied will darken and separate the values in the shadows and 3/4 tones - and these areas will open up appreciably. Of course the gloss differential and bronzing will be eliminated.

  3. Finally, I am a little concerned that you tried to use ProPhoto RGB because it suggests to me that you may have not read the NEW Piezography Manual in which we explain the critical importance of using only a Gamma 2.2 workflow (so that your images are not converted just prior to printing which can darken them). AdobeRGB 1998 is a Gamma 2.20 color space. ProPhoto RGB is not. There would be no difference in printing a Grayscale mode Gamma 2.20 image and an Adobe RGB 1998 mode image that is fully desaturated. The K7 curve would treat both the same and neither image would be converted prior to printing if you are following our workflow and have set up Print Tool to not color manage the images.

Let us know the results of your calibration. Also let us know if you are using the correct workflow from the NEW Piezography Manual (do not follow the QTR Manual).

Jon


#5

[QUOTE=jon;3904]Hi Jordan,

If you have the latest versions of software - then your output should be linear - although we can also assist you in determining that.

  1. You did not mention to what standards in Gamma and Brightness your displays are calibrated to. The color temperature is important as well, but only if you are using a viewing booth with which to compare your prints to your display. But, let us know the kelvin temperture, gamma, and brightness level so that we can advise you on calibration. You can find these target settings in the Color Navigator software which should only be used to calibrate the Eizo CE240W.

  2. We assume that the inks are installed correctly and that you are using the correct K7 curve with the media you are printing. The GO when applied will darken and separate the values in the shadows and 3/4 tones - and these areas will open up appreciably. Of course the gloss differential and bronzing will be eliminated.

  3. Finally, I am a little concerned that you tried to use ProPhoto RGB because it suggests to me that you may have not read the NEW Piezography Manual in which we explain the critical importance of using only a Gamma 2.2 workflow (so that your images are not converted just prior to printing which can darken them). AdobeRGB 1998 is a Gamma 2.20 color space. ProPhoto RGB is not. There would be no difference in printing a Grayscale mode Gamma 2.20 image and an Adobe RGB 1998 mode image that is fully desaturated. The K7 curve would treat both the same and neither image would be converted prior to printing if you are following our workflow and have set up Print Tool to not color manage the images.

Let us know the results of your calibration. Also let us know if you are using the correct workflow from the NEW Piezography Manual (do not follow the QTR Manual).

Jon[/QUOTE]

Jon
thanks very much for your reply/

  1. it turns out that the versions of color navigator compatible with the newest MacOS are no longer compatible with the CE240W. so I switched to the i1 Display Pro from X-rite to calibrate both the iMac and the CE240W. the white point is set at CIE D75 and the luminance at 120cd/m2. the backlight is set at CCFL. I do not see where the iProfiler tells me kelvin and gamma as part of the calibration workflow.

  2. i was very careful installing inks. is there anyway to check at this point? I downloaded the Epson Exhibition fiber curve from your website and installed it.

  3. the pictures were taken using the ProPhoto RGB setting in the camera (before I read your manual). I can switch back to Adobe 1998 RGB from now on. Otherwise I did follow your manual and not the QTR instructions.

Please let me know if you would like me to change the color space to Adobe 1998 at the beginning when I first open it in photoshop and then process it again, or if there are any other settings you think are important to check.

thanks very much
Jordan


#6
  1. That is truly too bad as you lose the benefits of investment of the Eizo. Now your video board is limited and you no longer can output 256 gray levels because the X-Rite software necessarily calibrates the video board and reduces it to target (while the Eizo stays unaffected). I would pursue that or revert back to an earlier OSX if that investment is important to you. Many of the production computers at Cone Editions Press are still on OS X 10.4.7 because it is the last operating system by Apple that does not interfere with images that are not color managed…

Having said all that, your brightness is significantly too high. For print work, you need to be no higher than 85 cd/m2. You are trying to imitate light reflecting off paper - so your brightness must “reflect” that - no pun intended. 120 is more appropriate for calibrating to the web or video… Likewise your white point at D75 is significantly blue… I would not consider your system to be calibrated to print. So it may not surprise me that your prints are coming out “too dark” to your reference point (your display). I think that you should find some way to calibrate this display using Navigator so that you can revert your video board back to null and set your display to the parameters of Piezography output. According to Eizo they believe that they have some compatibility with Mavericks: http://www.eizo.com/global/support/compatibility/os_mavericks/index.html

It is worth a phone call to them.

  1. You can check by running a Calibration Mode test print of inkseparation file. But - I do not think your issue is with misplaced inks as you would probably be seeing posterization.

  2. You can convert from ProPhoto to AdobeRGB 1998 quite easily.

We can look at your linearization if you like - by printing a 21 step strip test target (you will find them in the QTR folder in applications. GO overprint it and send to us at:

Tech Support
c/o InkjetMall
17 Powder Spring Road
Topsham, VT 05076

If you are linear and not too dark - then it confirms the display or your workflow…
You seem to be certain that you are following the workflow…but you may wish to include some screenshots with the print out when you send the 21 step to us.


#7

Jon
thanks very much. I will recalibrate using your suggested settings and if still printing too dark I will do a test print and send it to you.
thanks
Jordan

[QUOTE=jon;3910]1. That is truly too bad as you lose the benefits of investment of the Eizo. Now your video board is limited and you no longer can output 256 gray levels because the X-Rite software necessarily calibrates the video board and reduces it to target (while the Eizo stays unaffected). I would pursue that or revert back to an earlier OSX if that investment is important to you. Many of the production computers at Cone Editions Press are still on OS X 10.4.7 because it is the last operating system by Apple that does not interfere with images that are not color managed…

Having said all that, your brightness is significantly too high. For print work, you need to be no higher than 85 cd/m2. You are trying to imitate light reflecting off paper - so your brightness must “reflect” that - no pun intended. 120 is more appropriate for calibrating to the web or video… Likewise your white point at D75 is significantly blue… I would not consider your system to be calibrated to print. So it may not surprise me that your prints are coming out “too dark” to your reference point (your display). I think that you should find some way to calibrate this display using Navigator so that you can revert your video board back to null and set your display to the parameters of Piezography output. According to Eizo they believe that they have some compatibility with Mavericks: http://www.eizo.com/global/support/compatibility/os_mavericks/index.html

It is worth a phone call to them.

  1. You can check by running a Calibration Mode test print of inkseparation file. But - I do not think your issue is with misplaced inks as you would probably be seeing posterization.

  2. You can convert from ProPhoto to AdobeRGB 1998 quite easily.

We can look at your linearization if you like - by printing a 21 step strip test target (you will find them in the QTR folder in applications. GO overprint it and send to us at:

Tech Support
c/o InkjetMall
17 Powder Spring Road
Topsham, VT 05076

If you are linear and not too dark - then it confirms the display or your workflow…
You seem to be certain that you are following the workflow…but you may wish to include some screenshots with the print out when you send the 21 step to us.[/QUOTE]