Printing with epson photoblack?


#1

Hi Dana,

A question:

I(and most photographers here) don’t like the yellow tone in the Go overprint.
The bronzing is also not complete gone after the Go overprint.

Is there a way to avoid this? Can I change your photoblack to epson’s photoblack?

Thanks already!

Best regards
Peter


#2

The yellow tone is not from GO. GO is crystal clear. If the GO is printing with any yellow tone whatsoever it is because the cart has been contaminated with yellow ink or yellow ink remains in a damper. What is strange however, is that the yellow position is reserved for either Shade 7 ink or Photo Black in a P2 system.

So where does this yellow come from? That is critical to figure out.

[B]1) [/B]If you print out the Calibration mode target in Calibration mode - each of the individual inkjet heads will print a 21 step strip. Look there to see if GO is clear or yellow. Look there to see if shade 7 is yellow stained from the previously installed color inks. [I][B]Let us know which.[/B][/I]

If the prints still have bronzing after the second printing of GO - then the GO may not be being used correctly or the GO curve needs to be modified.

[B]2)[/B] Are you reprinting the same image file using the GO curve, or are you overprinting the entire sheet using a small perfectly white image file? [I][B]Let us know which.[/B][/I]

  1. If you are using the GO curve as a second printing with a small white image file - what paper are you printing on? We can help with modification of the curve - which is actually in the NEW Piezography manual. [I][B]Let us know which paper.[/B][/I]

Lets start there and let us know - so we can help you.

Jon


#3

Hi Jon,

Maybe I’ve said it wrong but what I mean is that the paper white isn’t the paper white anymore after the GO overprint. There is a kind/bit of a yellowish tone and a loss of density in the paper white.
Me and lot of photographers here don’t like this, they want to see the same paper white.

I’ve printed the 21 step strip and watched the GO, It’s not yellow toned but it seems that it prints too much GO?

I’ve bought a brand new 2880 and printed 1 file with color. After that I installed the K7 set and performed some cleanings.

If I print the Go overprint, I actually select a perfectly white image(255,255,255) AND select the GO overprint curve.
Are there different GO curves for each paper?

There is still a bit of bronzing if you look to the image in an angle.

I’m planning to let you make some custom curves for you soon.
I’ve tested Permajet fibre base gloss 295 and Innova Fibraprint white gloss F-type and tried different curves.

On matte paper, I’ve tested on Hahnemuhle, it looks very good, but I love to have more Dmax.

Thanks already!

Best regards
Peter


#4

Hi Peter,

We are not familiar with Permajet papers. But, we do not see yellowing or density loss on Innova Fiba paper or any of the papers we support and are familiar with. Typically - you can not actually see the GO unless you look to where the GO stops at the extreme edges. it is very very clear. We sell a lot of GO to Epson and HP color printers who overprint their glossy color ink prints to make them more presentable to photographers who are used to looking at conventional photographs.

So your experience is outside the norm. So - you may wish to send us in printed examples of the yellowing and density loss you are seeing…so we can rule out contamination.

You can adjust the GO curve - and there is a section on that in the NEW Piezography Manual. By adjusting up or down the 30,000 units - you can increase or decrease the thickness of the layer. If it is bronzing you increase it some (5000 at a time) to test…

For the Fiba paper we make a curve which is installed with the R2880 K7: K7-2880-InnovaPhotoFibaP.quad
Did you use that to print the ink on Fiba? Just checking to make sure you are installed correctly…and not using curves that are not designed by us.

regards,

Jon


#5

Hi Peter~

It would be helpful if you could please mail us some printed samples to examine. Reviewing your prints will help us understand better what you are seeing, and let you know if the results you’re getting are normal or not. You should not have bronzing after printing GO over the dried ink image, though we carefully developed the GO curve to work on a wide range of different glossy papers, some papers can benefit from slightly less or slightly more GO that our generic GO curve. With that said, the underlying paper and curve used can also have a big impact, and using a curve specific to the exact printer model, ink and paper will give you the very best results. We can tell a lot from your prints and determine the best solution to move forward.

Please send samples to me at the following address:
Inkjetmall
Attn: Dana/testing
17 Powder Spring Rd
Topsham VT 05076

Best regards~ Dana :slight_smile:


#6

Hi Jon/Dana,

Thanks for your reply, sorry for my delay… busy again :wink:

Isn’t it better that you make some custom profiles for me?
I have some papers I want to see how this performs with K7.
After this I can check how it performs the best way. If it turns out well, I’ll go for it on my 9800.

What do you exactly need from me to make the custom curves for me?
I want 4 curves for different papers.

Do you think K7 will work on the new Ilford B/W paper Gold Mono Silk?

PS: I’ve read somewhere on the Northlight website that a customer gets 3 free custom curves if you buy the system?

Thanks already and best regards
Peter


#7

Very few customers ever require customs unless they use papers we do not profile on our own. If you do wish to make a custom - you can visit this page and purchase and download the kit:

However, you appear to be having a problem with your install that is unique to you - and you really should send us printed samples. You should DEFINITELY NOT attempt any custom curves until we verify the integrity of your system. Customs will not fix something that is incorrect from the base. We need to get you “right”! :slight_smile:

There are very few papers that K7 will not work on. Ilford coatings have not been a problem in the past.

I’m not certain what you read on Northlight but it sounds very old as if in the days of PiezographyBW ICC. We do not provide free curves with K7 systems.

regards,

Jon

PS Send in your examples!!!


#8

Hi Peter~

Please send us some samples before attempting to have custom curves made or do anything else, because reviewing your prints will greatly help us determine what you are experiencing to help you get past this and happily printing.

At one time (years ago), we did include a few free custom curves with the purchase of a complete Piezography system, though haven’t done that in quite some time because we have several pre-made curves that work well for a good range of papers, and were spending a great deal of time working with people who didn’t follow our instructions and supplied incorrectly printed targets that couldn’t be used to make custom curves.

Please send some printed samples for us to examine, then we can move forward from that point to determine if you need a custom curve or what the best next step is.
Best regards~ Dana :slight_smile:


#9

Hi Jon/Dana,

Thanks for your quick reply!

When I used your curve on Hahnemuhle(mat black), it turns out great. It looked linear and nice.

But, I want to print on permajet fibre base gloss(photoblack) and Ilford pearl pp11(also photoblack) and Permajet matt +(matblack) too.
Those papers are popular here.
You don’t have curves for this, how can I send you an example on this paper, it will always go wrong?

Me and my customers are very critical, so it has to be good :wink:

If I want to sell this over here, I must show my customers that the system is linear and the GO overprint doesn’t have densisty loss.
For printing on my 9900 I make my own profiles, I have an i1pro and I’m going to buy an i1pro2 to get the best out my color prints.

I’ve printed a 21 target in calibration mode and let it dry for 24h. After 24h I could wipe some ink off… thus, too much ink.
For this reason I was thinking to let you make a custom curve.

Maybe, I send you the prints you need to make the curves and some examples too…?

Best regards
Peter


#10

Normally - high standard papers can absorb the full Piezography ink load. papers such as Canson, Hahnemuhle, Innova and JonCone Studio papers can absorb very high ink limits. Epson media can absorb high ink limits. According to Permajet website - its fibre based papers can only make a 2.2 dMax and that is not consistent with the high standard baryta type papers which can reach up to 2.7.

I would think that a higher standard paper would suit your clients needs better - especially when printing gloss or baryta. High dMax is very important to critical clients.

So, I suggest you should try something like Canson or Hahnemuhle Baryta before you invest in custom curves - as you may find that you suddenly have a much higher standard of printed result for your clients. So check that out and look very closely at the dMax of the Permajet where it stops smearing and see if that is acceptable to your clients in comparison to a Canson or Hahnemuhle that can take a much higher ink load. If the Permajet smears even in the mid-tones - then bin it for K7 work. It’s inadequate.

BUT - what about this yellowing? That is totally not part of the GO process and that is what has me most concerned about your setup. I am not convinced your system is correctly installed, nor that you are using it correctly.

Lets not talk in circles around this…

PLEASE SEND US SAMPLES ASAP!


#11

Hi Jon,

I will send you some prints I’ve made, no problem.

The reason that I want(ed) curves is to compare K7 with epson 9900 prints on the papers I use mostly.
I don’t care paying for this and knowing that the best is coming out of my 2880 to compare.

The yellowish look has more to do with the densityloss I see on the paper white, paper white is not paper white anymore.

Some customers told me that it reminds them at the HP B/W printing system that also needed an overspray.
Because they see the density loss, they hook off…
For this reason, HP didn’t brake through here with there bw printing(according to them).

Anyway, I’ll send you some prints soon.

Best regards
Peter


#12

Yes - that sure is weird and it’s not anything we’ve seen here.

GO is one of our best selling products and a fair % of it is going on top of Epson and HP prints made with OEM inks. If used correctly (and as advised) it does not reduce paper density, nor does it cause yellowing. It does perfectly equalize gloss differential and does eliminate bronzing while at the same time increasing dMax and drying to a crystal clear but just slightly more gloss amount than the paper it is coating.

Given that your experience is so different we are anxiously trying to assist you before you invest into custom curves.

Having said all that, you are certainly welcome to have custom curves made here:

Piezography Custom Curve Services
Make certain that you follow the instructions in the download to the “T”. When you submit them - our inspection of your targets will actually allow us to see the integrity of your system, and or your workflow.

Best,

Jon


#13

Hi Peter~

It would be very helpful to see the following samples:
[B]1.[/B] Printed nozzle check
[B]2.[/B] Printed Ink Separation image (for instructions on how to print this image, go here: http://www.inkjetmall.com/tech/content.php?144-Print-Ink-Separation-Image-thru-QTR-Calibration-Mode). Please print this on some sort of matte or rag paper.
[B]3.[/B] Printed 21 step strip on the paper and with the appropriate curve, labeled with the paper, curve and print settings used. Please include one good/matte and at least one glossy print showing the yellow tint and density loss you are explaining for us to see.
[B]4. [/B]Any other examples showing the issues you are experiencing so we can better understand your problems in order to resolve them and get you happoily printing.

If you send printed targets to have custom curves made, and the targets have yellow staining or other problems, I will not be able to use them to make your custom curves. For this reason, I agree with Jon that we should resolve the first issues before moving forward with making custom curves for the papers you wish to use.

Please let me know if you have questions, otherwise I will let you know once I have received and examined your prints.
Best regards~ Dana :slight_smile:


#14

Hi Dana,
Sorry for the delay…
The last weeks I printed a lot of images on hahnemuhle bright white with the mat black ink.
It’s very beautiful and linear with your provided curve.

I showed it to many of my customers and they didn’t believe what they saw, so beautiful bw pictures…

Anyway, I’m falling in love with bw prints on mat media, something new to me :wink:

In the near future I’ll print the test images with photoblack and send them to you.
I’m pretty sure that my workflow is ok now because the mat prints are stunning :slight_smile:

Best regards, and yes, I’m a happy printer now :wink:
Peter


#15

Hi Peter~

No worries about the delay. I am very glad to hear you have been happily printing, and blowing people away with the print quality you are acheiving with Piezography! :slight_smile:

All the best and happy printing~ Dana :slight_smile: