Dying time with Pictorico OHP

digitalnegative
pzdn
digneg

#1

Hello,

I had a problem with a faulty bottle of Ink witch is now solved ( http://www.inkjetmall.com/tech/showthread.php?1457-Loss-of-density-of-shade-2 )

It’s maybe less confusing to open a new thread with all the infos for another problem :

I’m printing Digital Negatives for Silver with an Epson SP 3880 and Warm Neutral Inks. I bought this printer new for one year and used it for both positive and negative print with Epson inks without any problem. I flushed and installed the inks following the manual with brand new cartridges.

My problem is that I have to set a dying time of 4s between each pass to avoid a splattered look of the negative on Pictorico. The negative are also not really sharp, I suspect this can be a result of this problem.

This is how a sheet of Epson Premium Glossy paper looks like out of the printer without dying time (it looks the same on Pictorico OHP) :


The system is also far from linear without a strong curve in the highlights (shadows on negative). I attached a screenshot of a correction curve for the 1.4 profile on ILFORD Fiber MG.


Is there any other users experimenting this behaviour?

Here are the technical informations about my workflow :

I’m using the methodology 3 and P2M-PZDN-x800 curves.

My printer set up is :

K – Flush
C --#2
LC – #3
M – Flush
LM – #5
LK – Flush
Y – #2.5
LLK – #4.5

I print from QTR Print Tool (1.1.0) on Mac os 10.7.4 (I was previously on 10.8.3 with the same results). QTR is the 2.7.5 version.

I print for Silver on Ilford Fiber Multigrade IV (with Kodak Dektol or Adox Konstant developer), my development process (temperature and time) is always the same.

Here is some screen captures of my workflow (I now use QUAD 3880-K7 in QTR without any improvement)



I already tried :

-Printing from Windows Seven
-Printing with QUAD 3880 and QUAD 3880 K7 in QTR
-Printing with a new batch of Pictorico

I can read the Lab value of each channel on a specific paper with a spectrophotometer, maybe we could check the values if you have the theoretical density?

Some help would be welcome. I have an important exhibition next month and would be glad to have the system working properly for it.


#2

Hi Francois~

Here’s what I wrote on your other thread with the same post/question/info:

Thanks for the additional information.

Your originally wrote because you were experiencing a problem with the shade #2 ink losing density over a few days, which was fixed with the new ink we sent. In that first message, you said you were able to print some really nice negatives and everything was working well (making me think this is a new problem?) Have you been having this over-inking problem since the beginning, or did this start after installing the new shade #2 ink (or at a different point)?

What Pictorico film are you using for printing Piezography digital negatives?

Please let me know, thanks~ Dana


#3

Hi Dana,

This is not a new problem, since the beginning I have to print with an important dying time.

The first negatives I printed were pictures with a lot of sky and are indeed really nice but not very sharp (which is perfect for this kind of picture). Printing pictures with more details is another story, it looks very soft to me.

I use the Pictorico OHP Premium (TPU-100), I wanted to try the Pictorico Ultra but it’s unfortunately impossible to buy it in Europe


#4

You MUST use Pictorico OHP ULTRA-Premium Film with Piezography Digital Negatives, as the regular “premium” film and other films work very differently, and can’t handle the ink limit like the Ultra-Premium. Piezography digital negatives were designed specifically for use with Pictorico Ultra-Premium OHP Film. Please locate and try some Pictorico Ultra-Premium Film and let us know your results.

Best regards~ Dana


#5

This is a really bad news for me.

Unfortunately Pictorico Ultra-Premium OHP is really impossible to buy in Europe. I did a lot of research including contacting Mitsubishi Paper.

If you know a reseller, it would be welcome…

The curves on the Piezography website are supposed to be compatible with both Pictorico OHP and Ultra. I certainly would have not spent that much time and money in the system if I had this information…

here is a screen capture of the website :


#6

I will change the website. The Utra and OHP may have gone through formulation changes since we developed the system. Certainly Ultra had some hiccups in 2014 with poor batches. We only use the Ultra here now.

If you prefer a refund on your system because we wrote that you can use regular OHP - please let us know and we can arrange for a RMA on your products.

Otherwise see if you can purchase from here:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pictorico-TPS100-Projector-Film-11x17in-20-Sheets-PICT35028-/391030482244

Adorama and B&H sell directly to EU from the USA web stores.


#7

Excellent, thanks Jon! :slight_smile:


#8

With Adorama, 20 Sheet of Pictorico Ultra 17"x22" would cost USD $237.34 including shipping and taxes… not sure it worth it. This Ebay reseller is not available in Germany.

I will think of a RMA. I have to think about it but maybe I can still convert the printer to a positive K6, I spent to much time on this, I’ll let you know.

Anyway, is that normal that the system over-ink on Epson Premium Glossy with the digital negative curves?


#9

[QUOTE=Francois;7636]Anyway, is that normal that the system over-ink on Epson Premium Glossy with the digital negative curves?[/QUOTE]

Yes it is.


#10

I likewise would’ve doubtedly invested in the system if it was made explicit from the beginning that only one type of media was able to be used. Or at least I would have stockpiled a significant amount of Pictorico before beginning the venture and selling my other printer and ABW inks. Nowhere in the manual is it mentioned that only a specific brand of Pictorico will work with the curves. I haven’t seen it mentioned on the inkjet mall shop either. Incredibly the inks used to work with Agfa film which I was getting good results with in the beginning and have made some fine platinum prints using that media for negs with Piezo ink. Perhaps the integrity of the inks has changed with age as I’m certain that im doing everything else correctly. Things were working at the end of April. I’m now finding out that the system has to be used a few times a week in order to remain operational. Having to reboot the system every time its left for a few weeks is a pain. Have been told to empty the carts and start again. So pour the ink down the drain? I understand that print heads can become dried up and blocked in this time but nowhere does it say about pigmemt falling out of suspension and being unusable. I have only added fresh ink a week ago and recently shook both bottles and the carts. This should be mentioned explicitly in both the manual and store to avoid wasted time money and disappointment. I might be posting this prematurely but I’m almost through my vey minimal amount of 20 sheets of Pictorico and at the bottom of shades 2 and 3 ink at which point things will grind to a halt again.


#11

Under requirements here: https://piezography.com/piezodn

Also in the FAQ in the main PiezoDN software product at inkjetmall:

What Inkjet-capable film do I need to use with PiezoDN?

The only film that we support is the only film that is capable of absorbing an amount of ink that PiezoDN is capable of printing. As of this writing that is only Pictorico OHP Ultra Premium Film. Pictorico OHP Premium or other films which claim to be similar can not absorb as much as Pictorico OHP Ultra Premium Film. Piezography process prints about 30% more ink than standard QTR linearization curves or the Epson standard and ABW printer drivers. This additional ink is used to increase the acuity, smoothness, and to eliminate digital artifacts and noise. Because PiezoDN does not require and Adjustment Curves in Photoshop, this increased film fidelity is a perfect marriage to raw or 16 bit workflow.

Also in the Piezography Manual Deluxe Edition under Requirements on page 104:

  • about 10 or 12 others pages as well as on the various forums and also google-able: