Cone Magenta Cart Bleeding into Yellow, Cyan and PK during Nozle Check

r2880

#1

This is the nozzle check after installing my final Cone Cart, which was magenta. Over the past 6 weeks, I have been replacing my OEMS. I had a couple extra OEM magents, which is why it took so long to finally get the Cone Set of carts complete in my R2400. After filling the magenta, the nozzle check showed bleeding into the neighboring colors. I removed the carts, cleaned the head and capping station as well as the left side pad. The magenta still migrates into the yellow, cyan, and PK.

Any ideas? Because I have been re-filling the carts for about 6 weeks now, I am confident in my work flow.

I appreciate any ideas.

EDIT: When removing the magenta cart, there was no obvious dripping or leaking from the cart.


#2

There has been many posts about this subject, mostly relating to the R2880, but this also pertains to any older printer and the R2400 is certainly getting up there in age. When print heads get old and worn they are less tolerant of aftermarket inks, sometimes including ours, unfortunately! I did extensive research on this theory and came to the conclusion, that you can either run your printer in “High Bred” mode, meaning using OEM ink along side our CCPRO inks with no problems OR you can clean your Capping Station, Print head and Wiper blade constantly as to maintain a good Nozzle Check. As you finding out, this may not always work for certain colors. Here is the thread about this exact topic, it’s full of good info surrounding this topic.

http://www.inkjetmall.com/tech/showthread.php?1246-COMMON-THREAD-Older-2880-Printer-Cartridge-issues


#3

Thank you for your answer. I guess it is just a coincidence that this trouble began with the “maiden voyage” of the IJM magenta cart. I will try to run it in hybrid mode by inserting an oem magenta and will report back. But my question is, if I am successful in running in hybrid mode, what does that prove? That the cart was faulty or that the magenta channel of the head is faulty?


#4

There have also been several recent threads about not being able to get refillables to work in an older R2400. There isn’t a common thread like for the R2880, as there weren’t as many, but I had one and so did JeffG. I also had one of the R2880s. For some reason the issues with both R2400s seemed worse. It may have something to do with those wretched bottom-fill carts.

The lessons I’ve learnt from using desktop refillables over 9 years


#5

Thanks Brian for the response as well as the link.

I had such good success at the beginning, printing both color and BW. Nozzle checks were more often than not good to excellent. Only after the dreaded magenta cart installation did things start to go downhill. I will be receiving a full set of 110ml inks on Friday. Now I’m wondering if I am throwing good money after bad.

I’ve been thinking of upgrading to the 3880 before they are gone. I’ll have to see if the after market carts for the 3880 are more reliable / stable than those used in the R2400. At least they wouldn’t use the bottom fill system.


#6

If you can be sure that it’s just one channel, then as Kelly suggests you may be able to run in hybrid mode, i.e. OEM magenta and the rest refillables. I had some success doing this in my R2880. I ran for four weeks with an OEM PK cart with very little problems. Then I had issues. My feeling was that I also needed an OEM cyan cart but I haven’t bothered to test this theory yet. I may … or may not. Of course you need to be sure that you’ve ruled everything else out first, but you say that you’re pretty confident in your workflow. You didn’t mention cleaning the wiper blade, but I assume that you did. Filling technique is also important, but you’ve done ok with the other seven.

I agree with you about the 3880. I’ve been having the same thought. It’s a lot of cash for a low-volume colour printer like me, but I want trouble-free, and if you read Lula then you read that the 3880 is the most trouble-free printer ever made. Of course that statement on Lula is generally made re OEM inks. The additional claim is made there that OEM don’t need agitation, which IJM recommend for ColColor Pro. At least with those 80ml carts, OEM is half the per ml cost of the 3000 and 40% of the 2880. It’s still four times the cost of CCP, but that’s better than eight or ten times, and for lower volumes, less painful in absolute terms.

I’ve oft considered a 3880 but the lack of a roll paper option was always the deal-breaker. The 3000 has one and but the OEM ink cost is double and it’s not clear that it has the same magic no-clog formula. Now with the announcement of the P800, there’s a multi-way decision to make. Early indications are that it shares the same technology as the 3880, so the question is: opt for a 3880 now, at possibly a lower price with a rebate (we don’t always get them here), and live with the lack of a roll option with workarounds, or get a P800 when it is released and hope that it is like the 3880, or wait until the P800 has proven itself after 12 months, or buy a 3000 now (think I can still get one), or limp along with this R2880?

Clearly I don’t have a 3880, but my impression is that its refillables are much better behaved. And as my lessons state, your best chance is starting with them in a brand new printer. Although as Jeff can attest with his 1430 and me with my 2400, that’s not a 100% guarantee. But the large carts are simpler and are just large reservoirs. The parts of the desktop carts that cause issues have been shifted to the ink lines and dampers. The challenge then becomes to print often enough to prevent sedimentation in them.


#7

Thanks again for your insightful comments Brian.

Running in hybrid mode seems like a band-aid fix for a problem that will only get worse. So I think the first move would be to get a new magenta cart to replace my current one which seems to have sparked this issue. If indeed the problem is the cart, well, problem solved…for the mean time at least.

This will buy me time to decide about the new P800, the soon out of production 3880, or, a friend of mine has offered me his (still working) 4880 for free. That 4880 is just such a beast, and it’ll cost me $400+ just to get it up and running with inks and such. I am currently printing at a higher than normal volume due to a show I have coming up next month, so this whole episode came about at a very inopportune time. I think my “normal” print volume would justify going to a higher volume cart like those found in any of the newer printers I am considering. In fact, there is a lot to re-think regarding OEM vs. Third Party, and which Third Party.

I do appreciate the information shared by the members on this forum!


#8

These older desktop printers with on-head carts have the advantage that they are cheap to hibernate and cheap to change inksets (this is more an issue for piezography). Which is why I’ve gone to so much trouble to keep mine going. The only current model 13" printers like this now are the 1430, which is only K1 6-channel and a cheap build quality, and the R2000, which is not a K3 printer (but is perfect for piezo). If you want a K3 printer with on-head carts, you’ve got to try to keep them going

I’m not sure that hybrid mode is such a band-aid solution. If there really is only one channel on your printer that won’t work well with refillables, then it may be a solution that works well for a considerable time. Your experience with the OEM magenta and seven refillables suggests that this is a distinct possibility.

If you buy 220ml carts for the 4880, then at current B&H prices the per ml cost of ink is quite low. Still more than CCP, but low enough to make you stop and think. But I suspect that the 4880 is not a low volume option.


#9

Let me say this, we use our cartridges in R&D every single day, we have every model printer we support. We use the R3000, 3800, 3880 & R2880 very regularly, they are “Put through the Ringer” with our refillable cartridges and our inks (CCPRO, ITPRO & Piezography), we see very little problems with cartridges in any of our printers. In fact we have cartridges in our 7880’s in the studio that have been in use for more then 3 years. The R2880 I use for testing ALL of our inks and I use on a minimum 3 sets of cartridges a week while testing, I very very rarely have a problem with a cartridge, they are bomb proof, solid & in my opinion, as good as OEM cartridges. The ONLY time I have any problems with the R2880 or R2400 cartridges is when our printers get old, neglected and simply worn out from use (and believe me they get used). Normally I maintain the printer I have on my desk to the up most standards, simply because I need it to work flawlessly 100% of the time, with little to no down time. These printers are made to be disposable, that is what Epson intended for them, if you can get a full 2 years out of any desktop printer, then you are doing something very right! Once I start having problems with a channel mixing ink, I try the Head Cleaning Kit, Cleaning the Capping Station & Wiper Blade and the bottom of the print head thoroughly. I also replace the cartridge, if this doesn’t solve the problem, then I use the printer as a GO printer and start with a new re-furbished that may last 2 yrs or 10 yrs, one never knows. We had a very old, worn out, neglected R2880 that was 6+ years old running flawlessly, then BAM the LLK channel stopped working. I cannot speculate how, why and what reasons caused the lightest color to drop out, all I could do was say “Thank you for your services trusty friend” and put it to sleep until the day I need it to test a theory such as this topic.

My point to this whole story is this, don’t expect these “Disposable” printers to last for years, if you get 2 years out of one, then YAHOO you’re doing well! The R3000 & the 3880 on the other hand are FAR less disposable, you get what you pay for with these printers. The only thing they will NOT tolerate is sitting around unused for extended periods of time, anything more then 3-4 weeks on these printers is going to cause head clogging and misfiring channels. This is not something that is easily fixed with Piezoflush either, it can only do so much cleaning! You should always store your printers with Piezoflush if you aren’t going to be using it OR print a test print once a week and make sure you maintain a good nozzle check weekly and they will last for years to come.

Hope this helps you in your decision making process, Cheers-Kelly


#10

Well, Thank you Brian again for your information. it is appreciated. I checked my printer this morning and found that the previously full magenta cart was empty after one head cleaning. Seems that the cart might indeed be the problem. I wish these carts were as robust as the OEM version.

Anyways, I refilled the magenta cart and ran a nozzle check. It was not perfect, but the migration of magenta was gone. I just am confused by the loss of magenta over night.


#11


So after making a single print, I decided to run another nozzle check. The results make me think this cart is bad. But I’m sure I will hear differing opinions.


#12

I had several R2880 carts behave just like that. I shipped them back to IJM. Kelly confirmed that one of them - magenta as it happens - was faulty, but she didn’t think that the others were. So that would mean that the others - all from the K channel - were not compatible with the K channel in my printer. I wasn’t convinced that at least one of them wasn’t faulty given its behaviour (long story here - ready my long thread if interested), but how I prove whether it was the cart itself or an incompatibility with the printer? I guess by trying cart after cart in that channel, and if they all behaved that way then it must be the printer. If only the one cart does then that is likely to mean the cart. But what if some do and some don’t?

Printer incompatibility with refillables does happen. Just ask poor JeffG53. He has a [B]brand new[/B] 1430 that is leaking badly with carts from both IJM and other suppliers.

IJM are very positive about their carts, and I don’t doubt them. I don’t know of better ones. But between the white of a perfectly maintained printer that is used daily and the black of a poorly maintained printer that is rarely used there are many shades of grey, and that’s where most desktop users are.


#13

I bought an OEM Magenta and should have it by Saturday. I will contact IJM tomorrow in the effort to buy just a new magenta. (Don’t ask me how I would handle this situation if I were the Customer Service Rep., especially if I were dealing with a client who hand spend over $400 in the past 3 months with my company). Anyhoo, with those two items, I hope to be able to determine if a new 3880 is in my immediate future or not. As always Brian, I thank you for your input and with update this thread with new results when they become available.


#14

I located a spare R2400 Magenta cartridge here in my office, please let me know what LOT# you are using for this position and I will pre-fill you a new cartridge and get into the mail asap. Once you have received the cartridge, 1st clean the printer thoroughly and install the OEM cartridge 1st to verify a good Nozzle check. Once you have a good starting point, install the refill cart and run 3 cleaning cycles, then verify the nozzle check and let me know the results.

I hope this is just a case of faulty cartridge, but I suspect the age of the print head may play a role in this problem, but keeping my fingers crossed for the faulty cartridge instead. Kelly


#15

Hi Kelly,
Thank you for the offer! I spoke with “Wells”? this morning (maybe it was Will…) and he has taken care of me. His assistance really impressed me.

I will follow your instructions and will let you know both the lot# of the old magenta cart as well as the results.

In any event, the combination of your response and the helpful Rep on the phone this morning have solidified me as an IJM customer! [B][I]It is much appreciated![/I][/B]

Bill


#16

Hi Bill, Wells let me know he is sending you a full set of replacement cartridges, so I will cancel the order I put together of the single pre-filled cart from here. Let me know the results, thank you-Kelly


#17

Thanks Kelly. I will be sure to post results. Thank you again for your help.


#18

[B]UPDATE:[/B]

I received a magenta OEM cart on Saturday for my Epson R2400.
After cleaning the head and capping station, I installed the OEM cart and ran a nozzle check.

:cool:

Nice and clean. No bleeding from the magenta field.

I am expecting my replacement IJM cart today, and will see if this too will provide a clean nozzle check.
Will report back with results.


#19

Received my delivery from IJM. Thank you all so much for the fast response and service!

I filled the replacement Magenta cart and it is working beautifully! I’m up and printing again!

It’s so nice when a problem gets solved.