something like this maybe??
http://www.drylam.com/docs/default-source/brochure/colortac.pdf
Here are the measurements done by xrite 810 from 8 ink target printout on pictorico super ohp, print dried overnight, measurements taken from 65% patch, printed via “Print Tool2” at 100% ink in calibration mode.
ink 1, black 2.79
ink 2, cyan, 1.80
ink 3, magenta, 0.75
ink 4, yellow, 1.39
ink 5, l. cyan, 0.91
ink 6, l magenta, 0.32
ink 7, l black, 0.3
ink 8, ll black, 0.44
hope it helps to solve the mystery!
I noticed on 7890 ink positions are marked under different numbers, but I am sure you use some kind of re-mapping routine.
i can ship physical film with printout, if I need special quad file, maybe this is the way to go.
In print tool application this printer called Quad7890-K7, profile I use is P2M-P2DN-X800-Meth3-1_6v3
Thank you,
Sergey
P.S. Thank you so much for the link to Colortac DMT tissue! I hope that’s the one that releases paper for platinum without damaging it! I understand the vacuum hot press to use is Hot Press heated glass top vacuum HGP260
If you sure that your densitometer is accurate - send the film to us. Also send us a calibration mode printout on Ultra Premium OHP along with the 21 step.
Will mail it!
What is the best address to use?
Still leave 100% ink coverage setting when printing 8 ink printout in calibration mode?
Print 21 step file in Meth 3 1.6v3 setting?
thank you!
Sergey
Yes on both.
send to
Walker Blackwell
InkjetMall
17 Powder Spring Road
Topsham, Vermont 05076
when you print the 21 step, would you please include simple printouts of your workflow during printing so we can see screen captures of all of your settings
we want to see Photoshop Save As screen
If you are on OS X we need to see Print Tool settings just prior to clicking Print
And we need to see the QTR or QTRgui settings prior to clicking Print
Thanks for the detailed measurements Sergey! Looking forward to the mail.
best,
Walker
Mailing out today… Printed out 21step unchanged file that came with QTR, via PrintTool, and re-saved same file in Photoshop as gamma 2.2 grey tiff, printed via photoshop invoking QTR with same Meth3 1.6v3 profile, the results nearly identical.
Thank you for you fast response and willingness to help, it’s a shame if this great system would be sitting underperforming.
And just to be clear…so that we can understand the problem…
-
You have not actually tried to make a print from a negative, correct?
-
You are saying that the problem is that instead of printing an optical density of 1.80 on Pictorico Ultra Premium OHP film, it is printing an optical density of 3.30?
-
You mentioned having a 31 step Stouffer strip. It’s maximum dMax is 3.05 - when you measure the dMax of a 1_8 curve with your X-Rite 810 Color Densitometer you are measuring more dMax from our 1_8 curve than the last step of your Stouffer? Is that correct?
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If you have a light table and put our film next to the Stouffer Strip, is our dMax as opaque or more opaque or less opaque than the Stouffer strip dMax?
The problem is, when I print a 21step file using 1.6dmax profile, I can see it comes very dark. I have spend years doing positives for my photogravure efforts and even without densitometer I know how my file, which I run thru my photogravure process before, is suppose to look like in order for me to get good trouble free etching. No, I did not used negatives, this would be for platinum and I am just starting there. But I do have a lot of experience with positives, and on Piezography system as well. I did my own profiles for StudioTone ink set, and it worked fine. I just thought with known inkset, know media, professionally made “curve” I will be all set, plus flexibility of using 1.4 setting for my positives and 1.6 or 1.8 for negatives. If you can check densities that I am getting against you reference, and tell me what I print out is within intended specs, I am not going to argue and will have to adjust my files in Photoshop prior to printing. But I have a strong feeling, you will find out my densities are out of spec, and at this point the only two explanations I have either misplaced cartridges or mislabeled ink. The way I remember the order history, you were out of one particular shade, which was mailed to me later separately. Maybe there was a mixup? In any case, I will use it, it is just I want to be sure the way the system is set up now is correct. I also think I will get better quality if we can fix the profile and get it to run the way it was intended to run. Once I start applying curves in Photoshop just for printing, I might not get the range and smoothness the system can deliver.
Thank you!
Sergei Zlotnikov
Jon, just to be clear, I think your efforts are exceptional and call for highest praise. I switched to conecolor system for my everyday color printing on 7880 and it has been running flawlessly, giving me great quality and tremendous savings! I was early adept to Piezography 24 system and it was giving results so good, I finally had to look for another, more “handmade” venue, finding photogravure finally, all because the Piezography results were “too good” for my taste, too pristine. It must have been my bad luck that when I decided to use High end Piezography for my positives and negatives to up the quality and have better control and calibration, I run into these unexplainable problems. Otherwise, I am truly grateful for your efforts an pursuit of better and better quality.
Thank you so much,
Sergei Zlotnikov
Gentlemen! I hope you have received my film printouts! You were right about suspicion that my old xrite 810 is a little off. I checked it against ceramic calibration target and it shows .20 more densityI found my than it should. I found my “old” t2115 Stouffer 21 step scale, and step 21 measures 2.99
i re-checked 21step file printed on Pictorico with 1.6v, and 100% black measures 2.20
I cannot explain the variations.
If you can confirm from my samples that inks are in correct order with correct densities, and if my 21 step print is withing intended specs, I will do the rest on my side to make it work.
Thank you so much, really appreciate the involvement!
All the best,
Sergey Zlotnikov
Not arrived yet.
Jon!
Tracking from USPS shows status as “delivered on Jan 21”, it was a 9" by 11" yellow envelope addressed attention Walker Blackwell
InkjetMall
17 Powder Spring Road
Topsham, Vermont 05076
If you cannot find it, please let me know, I will send another one. This is the only way to resolve this for me. I really appreciate your patience and support.
Thank you,
Sergey Zlotnikov
It was on Walker’s desk. I’m in my darkroom tonight and nipped into Walker’s office and there it was. So I measured it and you’re off axis linear which is odd. And max out at 2.106 on one and just over 2.0 on the other. I’ll let Walker sort it. Hopefully he can. In meantime burn some metal with it. Do you have our Pt/Pd starting curve?
Jon, thank you for helping with this! If you think the sequence of inks is correct on 8 ink calibration printout, and individual ink densities are within specs measured let’s say, at 65% mark, then I will hook up this printer to my old laptop running xp and install your v3 quad files on it and run the test again. But please confirm that individual ink runs are ok. I was concerned that somehow mixed them up during installment or got wrong shades. But if they are all good, then it’s a software issue(?)
What do you mean by burn metal? I have not done pl/pt, have complete kit sitting on my desktop, waiting for resolution of this. But, after running some positives for photogravure, I know they are too dense, so I did not even tried to run a plate from them, I know exactly what I am going to get.
If there is anything specific you want me to do, I will do it right away
Thank you,
Sergey
I don’t believe I have a pt/pl starting curve. Is it for photoshop to work together with meth3 1.8v3 profile?
I’ll put together something to send you tomorrow. A wider range of QTR curves - and a Photoshop starting curve. It’s 1am right now. I did not measure the densities of the inks on the film. We will sort that on Monday. Is this film Pictorico OHP Ultra Premium?? It feels a bit thinner. Burning metal - what we used to call exposing platinum… The film you sent has a DR of about 1.9. There are plenty platinum printers who would kill for that in a neg… But, pt/pd has pretty unusual contrast so wait for me to send you a starting correction curve for Ps.
I’ll get into this with Jon today.
Was out with a nasty stomach issue from Wednesday on. Sorry,
W
Dear Sergey, is this film that you sent Pictorico Pro OHP ULTRA PREMIUM? There are two different kinds of PRO OHP film, the only kind the really works is the “Ultra Premium” version. It takes about 20% more ink and is what our curves are built for. Over-inked sections can cause out-of-linear responses. Per this thread on multiple occasions we mentioned Ultra Premium film but I don’t see a confirmation.
Re: the denser (gamma 1.0) step wedge and the thinner (gamma 2.2) step wedge, this is about the correct response you should get from your printer and workflow for each type of file. So I don’t see an issue with you OS exactly.
I will measure you densities in a bit, but please confirm if this is non Ultra film.
regards,
Walker
It could be as simple as the wrong film my friend. This stuff you sent that I’m looking at is not as thick as the Ultra Premium we have in the studio right here.
I did some more tests, even tried to run it from xp laptop, which in the past was giving me more predictable Piezography printing, same results, same densities. So, it is not the software or operating system. I even tried to create my own curves using six shades from the ones loaded in the printer ( please don’t be mad at me) Results are not bad, but I really like to extreme highlights and definitions in deep shadows your Meth3 curves are giving me. It’s the middle part , I would say from 85% to 45% part that seems a little blocked. Again, at this point I am printing “real” image that I know and printed before. If you don’t mind checking densities and positions from my 8 ink cal file that I send you and confirming that they are on the spec, it will take a big question out of the puzzle.
Thank you,
Sergey
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