Weird lumps floating within Piezoflush in carts?

1

Hi Walker.
I have seen that some of the carts for the 9900 I had filled with Piezoflush last year had strange lumps of black material floating within the liquid. The carts were filled last year with piezoflush, and were stored in an air tight plastic box (22° and 60% HR more or less constant). Today, I topped them up with piezoflush from a closed bottle (1 gallon) that I had bought last year too. As you can see on a different post, I have had problems with two colours gone totally right after loading with piezoflush and performing an init fill. I took those carts out and I have seen these kind of feathery black substances, not solid, they seem more like something of a different density, viscous, black, swirling around as I move around the piezoflush within the carts. What could this be? Can this affect the performance of the printer, or clog it at the head? Obstruct the output hole of the carts? I thought piezoflush does not go bad (after all, it is made for long term storage)?

What do you recommend?

I am attaching here some pics of the weird substances floating around… seen against the light, when the carts are put down and some time is given for these “swirling black substance lumps” to come down…

lumps%20within%20piezoflush lumps%20within%20piezoflush%20II

Thanks,

Rafael

2

Hi there,

These lumps seem to be all over the carts with Piezoflush.
Another photo attached, were they are more visible (I allowed more time for them to settle at the bottom, more transparent).
The carts were new, and never used but for Piezoflush.
I really hope these things are not going to ruin the printer, clogging the dampers, or the head. Do you think the fact some colours are totally missing in the nozzle check could be related to this? Maybe these floaters are clogging the output of ink and not allowing ink to get into the tubes?

I had just replaced the head and the whole cleaning unit and it would be disastrous if this stuff now goes and kill the whole thing… :frowning: :frowning:

black%20clumps%20on%20piezoflush

Rafael

3
4

We are sending 2x gallons of replacement flush and also fresh carts asap.

This is not supposed to happen. Please private message me the lot#s so I can track down. That being said, I would think I would see this being posted all over the place as we make this in large lots so it could have been an infiltration of the cartridge by some rather biocide resistant bacteria or fungus . . .

-Walker

5

Hi Walker,

I left for a long weekend but i will send you that info as soon as i get back to the studio.

The carts were storaged inside of a plastic big hermetic container… All carts have traces if this, but specially the Light Cyan and the Light Magenta. These are the two colours that have completely disappeared from the nozzle check after the init fill. Do you think that substance could have got its way through the carts and into the damper, blocking it?

If yes, i suppose it would be important to do something quickly so that the head does not stay dry for long. I consumed all the piezoflush and have no more carts, so thanks for the offer of sending the two big bottles and a new set of carts as soon as you can. Man, we went through hell if you remember our posts last summer with the Epson technician, and after a whole year babysitting the printer the idea of it getting ruined really throws me in despair…

Do you think this substance could we washed out with a few more init fills and fresh piezoflush? Could that find its way through the head and into the maintenance tank?

Does Piezoflush have a kind of fungicide? I saw another user on the forum who also reported “unidentified black floaters” in his piezoflush like i have seen…

On another side, the 9880 is also giving problems after the init fill (please see the other post i made). Can that be normal? Would you suggest doing another init fill or something different?

Thanks again Walker and sorry i called yesterday in panic mode. This has become a terrible source of frustration to me…and I hope one day i will be able to finally print something…

Warm regards,

Rafael

6

Is the same troublesome printer that failed on the first initial fill? I don’t remember exactly but I recall saying that you probably should not do initial fills with that printer (regardless of the fluid used) . . .

Re: 9880 it will be fine with new flush. It’s common to have some gaps after an initial fill but then have the gaps disappear after a few last normal cleanings. But I recommend flushing with the new carts/flush when it arrives.

-Walker

7

Hi Walker,

That was the one with the problem. However it was due at the time to a badly installed cleaning unit by the technician, while performing a customary maintenance service (the machine never worked badly). Before that event, and later once they fixed the problem, the init fills worked well when switching from colour to flush and the mn to colour again. They ended up changing the head and the cleaning unit and the machine was working well and like that for a year.

What do you think i should do with that now? Wait for the new carts and flush and perform a new init fill? Various power cleanings? Do you think that weird substance might clog the dampers and then a new cleaning unit might need to be installed? If it is a kind of mold, do you think there can be some sort of perennial clog or contamination of the printer?

Let me know when the shipping is coming so that i can track it please.

Thanks,

Regards

Rafael

El 1 ago 2019, a las 14:09, walkerblackwell via InkjetMall Community <community@inkjetmall.com> escribió:

Is the same troublesome printer that failed on the first initial fill? I don’t remember exactly but I recall saying that you probably should not do initial fills with that printer (regardless of the fluid used) . . .

Re: 9880 it will be fine with new flush. It’s common to have some gaps after an initial fill but then have the gaps disappear after a few last normal cleanings. But I recommend flushing with the new carts/flush when it arrives.

-Walker

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8

Sorry. I is very hard for me to respond to floods of questions. I am teaching 8 people in a platinum workshop and handling all of support.

rafaelrojas
InkjetMall Customer

    August 1

Hi Walker,

That was the one with the problem. However it was due at the time to a badly installed cleaning unit by the technician, while performing a customary maintenance service (the machine never worked badly). Before that event, and later once they fixed the problem, the init fills worked well when switching from colour to flush and the mn to colour again. They ended up changing the head and the cleaning unit and the machine was working well and like that for a year.

What do you think i should do with that now? Wait for the new carts and flush and perform a new init fill?

Yes.

Various power cleanings? Do you think that weird substance might clog the dampers and then a new cleaning unit might need to be installed?

I really don’t know. I have not dealt with sludge before myself. Never saw this in my own Piezoflush printers as a customer for 15 yrs before working here.

If it is a kind of mold, do you think there can be some sort of perennial clog or contamination of the printer?

I think it is a mold of some sort. We have biocides in the flush so it’s an aggressive mold.

Let me know when the shipping is coming so that i can track it please.

Sending probably today and if not tomorrow. You will get tracking info the second it gets applied to the box.

9

Hi Walker,

Sorry for the trouble. Yes i know you must be busy as hell. Very much appreciated your quick support and sending the replacement. I might try to analyze the sludge. It bugs me not to know what it was.

I will wait for the flush and perform 1 or 2 init fills And see what happens…

Thanks again,

Warm regards

10

Hi Walker,

I hope the workshop went smoothly. Sorry again for the interruptions, but it was important to act quickly, like you did.Today I received the flush and carts. Thanks so much.

Before proceeding, is there anything you would recommend doing?
Just switching them all and doing 1 Init Fill for each machine?
Any series of Power Cleanings or normal cleanings after the Init Fill? Or Init fill and leave there sitting for 24 hours before doing any nozzle check?

Thanks in advance and regards,

Rafael

11

Switch out, prime properly!! Then initial fill

Best,

Walker

12

Hi Walker,

I installed the new carts and flush into the two printers, with the following results:

Epson 9900
The two missing colours (100% missing) continue missing.
After the init fill, a third colour has gone completely.
As a result, three colours are totally missing now.
A fourth colour shows a few clogs that seem persistent
The other colours seem right

I have performed the init fill, and a couple of cleaning cycles for the pair that was totally gone. Nothing seems to change.

The two colours totally missing were the ones with the maximum amount of black floaters in the liquid… so I guess it might have clogged the dampers, not allowing ink to get the to head? If that is the case, I suppose that the head has been working “dry” with these colours, and that it might be gone?

I do not know what you would recommend doing now. Do you think that any other cleaning could be done, or should I call the technician to change dampers and head? It was all changed new last summer, with few prints in between and perfect nozzle checks every day since :frowning: :frowning:

EPSON 9880
I have made the init fill, and realized that when performing the Auto-Cleaning ON + Print nozzle check (you get the mosaic of rectangles being printed) that the clogs are moving. Before this second init fill, one of the colours was totally clogged, now seems ok. However, other colours that were fine, now are clogged. In other words, the clogs seem to jump from one colour to another. I have allowed some time for the printer to sit down, and now I have allowed it to perform a few auto-cleanings, showing some improvement. But yet, the results are not perfect. What would you recommend? Do you think we are here seeing the result of air into the machine, rather than proper clogs? This machine did not have floaters like the 9900, so I am inclined to think about air getting into the machine somehow…

Let me know what to do - how to proceed - what you think…

Am I being out of luck, or is this normal? It seems I spend all my time, money and energy solving printer related problems. For 3 years I have been trying to make platinum prints, but everytime I intend to devote myself to it, the printers go bad and I end up spending more and more grands. This is insane.

Thanks in advance Walker for your help,

Warm regards,

Rafael

PD: Pictures attached of the last nozzle check of the Epson 9900 and the 9880 (there is a series from 1 to 4 showing the clogs jumping from one to another as the printer performs cleaning cycles).

epson%209900

9880%20-%201
9880%20-%202
9880%20-%203
9880%20-%204

13

I really really can’t say on the 9900. I don’t trust that printer at all frankly. It had problems on initial fills from the get-go from last year. The 9800 you did the initial fill on or just single cleanings? I don’t recommend ever doing auto-cleaning with PiezoFlush. Always do manual. Power cleaning is probably required . . .

-W

14

Hi Walker,

Some updates. The Epson 9880 has two channels almost completely gone, and they are impossible to clean. The 9900 remains with the three channels gone, the others are ok they seem. The three colours gone are those where the carts were particularly filled with black substance floating around: LC, LM and O.

The 9900 had problems with init fills only last year AFTER the technician changed the cleaning station and the dampers unit… They finally got them changed again (along with the head, that had failed in between) and the machine was working fine in colour for the whole year.

The fact that the colours with more floaters in the carts were the first to go away when I made the init fill this year, and just at the look of the thing in the carts makes me quite confident that it was the reason that killed the machine.

I am trying to see with my insurance what to do, but if that does not work, I will have to open the wallet myself… If we were to repair the machine and not change it for another one, what would you think of changing if substances have got into the system? Would it be conservative to think that the Ink Selector unit (Dampers) are the first thing to change? I assume that is where that substance might have got stopped first, blocking the filters… does this sound logical? Can physically an extraneous substance like the ones we have in the carts affect too the Cleaning station? I would not want to change Dampers (and eventually head) only to discover that the Cleaning Station could have been affected-infected too.

Let me know what you think.

The other thing that puzzles me is that the 9880 is not able to recover. This machine was always almost untouched by clogging even after months of no use. It was a tank. And now, just this init fill with Piezoflush seems to have killed it too.

Did you never have reported problems with Piezoflush from other clients? It is all quite strange and unfortunate, by the way.

Warm regards,

Rafael

15

We’ve had ZERO problems with floaties. We would have heard right away if this were a batch problem because we literally sell thousands of bottles a month. This was a unique biotic infiltration of your cartridges that evaded the biocides already present in the flush. It’s truly a shame. Most likely it has simply blocked your dampers. A replacement of dampers + manual cleaning sucking out of the lines may be needed as we did not catch the fluid soon enough during its formation of floaties inside of the mechanics of the printer. :frowning:

-Walker

16

Hi Walker,

Yes, that is what I thought too…

Can you please help me out elaborating on the process of “sucking out” the lines?

I assume that if the technicians just change the dampers AND THEN we put the color ink and init fill, then the remaining piezo flush (contaminated) might again fill up the dampers with nasty stuff, right?

If that is the case, how to proceed? I am in the process of getting quotes from the repairman, and I want to make sure they know what they need to do - quote…

Do you think the cleaning stations might need replacing? I assume that any contamination would have been stopped at the dampers, and that for the cleaning station to get affected it should go pass the head, is this right?

Thanks in advance for your help. Man, I hope all these problems will stop soon and we will finally be able to talk about printing, and not printer problems!

rafael

17

Hi Walker,

Something interesting, but alarming. In the three positions where I introduced the new carts with NEW piezoflush there are first signs of cloudy black filaments appearing in the liquid. In other words, it might seem that the new carts and fluid had got contaminated with whatever that is. Therefore, the number of floatis are increasing in the old carts, kept outside of the machine now.

If the new carts have got the “maladie”, I suppose it has been just due to the contact with the ink inlet where the old contaminated carts were, right? In other words, that was enough to propagate the problem.

Everything seems that it is a serious mould growing there. Now, based on what I see happening on the new carts, I wonder whether servicing the machine (changing dampers, head, etc) might be a good idea. I think it might be a possibility that even if everything is new, the spores propagate the way they are doing now.

In other words, do you agree with me that these machines seem beyond repair?

Cheers (even if I do not feel all that cheerful!)

Rafael