Cone Color Inks vs Epson Color Inks in Epson 9900

InkjetMall Customer Support ConeColor Inks & Printing
, , ,
13
  1. Checking the image information to see if the output you’re getting is correct for the image. I have included two examples below to illustrate what I’m talking about.
    A. The screen capture below is checking the info for the blue patch. As you can see the info is reading primarily blue in the RGB section, and cyan in the CMYK section. The second highest RGB value is G, which is the opposite of magenta. The low Y value is indicating strong blue (opposite of Y), and the K value is 0, so this color patch is expected to print medium blue.

B. The screen capture below is checking the info for the purple patch. As you can see the info is reading primarily blue in the RGB section, and magenta in the CMYK section. The second highest RGB value is R, and the lower G value indicates more magenta. Considering the RGB and CMYK info, this color patch is expected to print medium/dark purple.

If the print output is printing different from what the info window indicates a color should be printing, then you know the output is not accurate for the image, and would look into determining the cause of the difference.

  1. In my post on 7/18 (post #9 above), I asked “How does output of their image from your computer compare to output you were getting from their MacMini?”
    The reason I asked this is because you have extensive experience with your computer/printer setup, and have taken steps to closely monitor your output accuracy over time.
    You have: 1. verified your ConeColor output matched your Epson output after switching inks (in a controlled test: with the same printer, driver, paper, etc…), 2. regularly agitated your ink cartridges and used your printer to ensure in-suspension pigment for consistent output, 3. frequently print a control print to check the accuracy/consistency of your output over time, 4. made new profiles for your system to ensure your output profile is accurate. I have more confidence in and knowledge about your setup, so expect your output is likely accurate, so am curious how output of the same image from your computer to your printer compares to output from their MacMini to your printer, and their MacMini to their printer.

The reason I sent you this image is because it’s a well known color test image, that we (and many others) have used for years to evaluate color output. I’ve printed this image thru every profile I’ve made over the past several years, and can quickly notice if it’s correct or there’s something wrong. Using a standard/known test image gives a solid base point to help rule out variables, and help trouble shoot to narrow down and determine the cause (and solution) to your output differences.

Above (in post #6) you wrote that you have used profiles you’ve made, CCP-9900 profiles from our website, and “the canned ones”, and with all those profiles, your output is consistent in that the blues go purple and magentas go green (with the client’s image). This makes me think the profiles are accurate (especially if you get the same output making a custom profile specific to your exact setup).

We print for a wide range of artists and photographers from around the world (at our studio, ConeEditions Press), all using different equipment and setups. We carefully maintain our printers, computers, color management systems, etc… to keep a consistent “known good” viewing and print systems. Often times, output from our stable setup doesn’t match the prints clients send us (depending on their printers, inks, papers, color management, printer maintenance, etc…), so we make adjustments to the client’s files so our output matches what they want, and send them proofs to evaluate/approve before printing finals. We keep the approved BATs to match for future printing, to ensure consistency over time, as printers can shift over time, paper batches differ, etc… so when they reorder in the future, we print a small test and compare to the approved BAT we have, to make sure everything is the same before making final prints.

Does this make sense?
Please keep me posted, let me know if you have further questions, or there’s anything else I can help you with.

All the best~ Dana :slight_smile:

14

Dana,

At this point I don’t think they have much confidence in me anyway. So can I possible send you their file (pretend I never did) and have you look at it? Please, please.

15

Sure, I would be happy to look at their file and let you know what I see/think. You can email it to me.

16

Just sent it to you via HighTail, look for e-mail. Thanks for doing this Dana!

17

I just received it, and will take a look shortly- appropriately named :wink:

18

You should see what the real name was, it would make you gag.

19

I have used cone HDR inks in my 7900 for a year now and I have been for the most part happy.
I hired a color management consultant, when I noticed that the output from the 3880, with Epson inks, was a larger color space (Greater D-Max) than the 7900 with Cone inks
After printing the color test charts, sure enough, the 3880 with Epson inks was printing the proper color gamut.
The most visible problem seems to be with the cone inks is with the Cyan and Green. The Magentas are very close,
I will replace the both Cyan, Green and Orange, Both Magenta and report next week.

Glen

20

Hi Glen~

Keep in mind that you’re also comparing two different printer models.

After reviewing your order history, I see you purchased the 7900 refill carts and ConeColor in early 2013.
How often have you been agitating the cartridges?
How often have you been using the printer vs. how long does it sit unused?
What paper(s) are you printing on?

~Dana

21

Hi stillrivereditions~

Sorry for not getting back to you sooner. It’s been a very busy week, but I have made several test prints of the image you sent, and wanted to follow up with my results.

Since we use ConeColor inks for color printing, we only have a R3000 that we just received that still has Epson inks installed. For ConeColor, I used our 9900- so my tests are not only comparing the two inks, but two different printer models, as well as two different print systems (I used Mac 10.9.2/Photoshop CC when printing to the R3000, and Windows 7/Photoshop CC with the 9900).

After evaluating the image in Photoshop, and checking different areas with the info window and eyedropper tool, I can see that the image contains a lot of purple, magenta and cyan tones, with a few areas of green, yellow/peach and black. I printed on Epson Premium Glossy Photo Paper with both setups, using the standard Epson Premium Glossy profiles.
My results from the two systems are VERY close, especially in overall density, and dMax, though my ConeColor print has slightly darker shadows than the Epson print. The Epson ink print is a tad more purple/magenta than the ConeColor print (which sounds opposite of what you reported experiencing).

As I said before, I recommend printing from your computer using your profiles and known stable print system. View the image thru the soft proof profile, then edit as necessary to make your output match the client’s desired match print, then save the edited file to print from your system and retain an approved proof/BAT for future printing to maintain consistency.

I hope this helps.
Best regards and happy printing~ Dana :slight_smile:

22

OK, time for an update on my original post. Just by chance I had a client who wanted to sell their Epson 9900 that had only 21 print count on it. The deal was too hard to pass up, so… I took the troublesome customer file and printed it and WOW, it matched my customers first hit. This printer has Epson inks in it. So what does this mean?

Epson inks
Epson “canned” profile
Epson Premium Glossy paper

23

What are the firmware versions of your original 9900 and new 9900?

24

Dana,
Both the same, I made sure of that before tests. Did you ever see anything wrong with that file I sent you? If you would like, I can print that test chart/image on both and send them both to you? I will use exact same settings for both.

25

My name is Kelly, I will be covering for Dana while she’s away on maternity leave.

Yes, please send us the test chart images from both printers using the same exact settings & papers.
Also, please re-install the driver both times you send the print to either machine (just to rule that out).
Mailing address:
Inkjetmall
attn.Kelly/Tech Support
17 Powder Spring Road
Topsham, VT 05076

I have been “in the loop” on your concerns and have collaborated different ideas and solutions with Dana.

Dana is in accessible for a couple of days, I will send her an email asking if she found anything wrong with your file. If she did I would have assumed she would have gotten back to you, but will double check just in case.

26

Kelly,

I will do that, and please tell Dana congrats!

27

I’m at home playing the waiting game until contractions intensify, but wanted to respond to say I didn’t find anything wrong or strange with the file you sent, and see lots of purple/magenta in the main area, so feel my test prints are accurate with a touch of purple in the main area, and light cyans and blacks look as they do on our NEC monitor as well. I noticed it’s a 16-bit file, but that shouldn’t cause any issues.
Yes, it would be helpful to see your print output of the test image I sent you, as well as your output of the file you sent me for comparison. I printed most of my tests on Epson Premium Glossy Paper, so if you could use the same paper, that would be great.

Thanks~ Dana :slight_smile:

28

Shipped them off to Kelly today. Now don’t even think about it and get busy on the baby delivery. Congrats! :smiley:

29

I received your images today, just to verify, these are all printed with the printer in question (your original 9900) & their MacMini, correct?

Can you please tell me what OS their MacMini is? I know your system is 10.6.8, but didn’t see if you posted what their OS version is.

I reviewed your images and they are VERY similar to the ones Dana printed using our R3000 & 9900. I don’t see any significant differences, I was expecting a much lighter image with much greater difference in colors.

30

The prints I sent you were all printed on my two 9900s, one with Cone inks, ones with Epson inks. Same paper used in both, same computer, same network connection, same firmware version, same OS, same printer driver, same paper profiles. This was a test between the two printers and the two inks. I hope my markings on each print make sense.

You mention you do not see a “big” difference between the samples I sent you and the ones Dana printed, but I hope you can see the obvious major difference between the two inks sets I used for the tests??? The Epson ink ones have a better d-max, better tonal separation, less gloss differential, and better contrast.

Concerning the prints of the purple image, the one done with Epson inks and Epson’s canned profile by me, are a dead match to the print supplied to me by my client. Their setup was the Mac Mini, OSX 9.4, Epson 9900, printed out of Aperture.

So my conclusion is my Epson printer with the Epson inks, even printing out of Photoshop, matches their results. Which means that setup will work.

But the overall concern is that Cone’s inks are suppose to “replace” the Epson inks at a lower cost. Perhaps yes, but not really.

Mark

31

Any other thoughts on what is happening?

32

Dana & Jon have previously responded to your questions, Jon will be back next week and will continue this discussion with you.

Kindly,
Kelly